Luke explores the intricate challenges of navigating neurodiversity, the influence of alcohol culture in the workplace, and the journey towards creating inclusive environments in the digital age, highlighting his story of resilience and redemption.
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, yoursanctuary for bold conversations that spark change. I'mJoanne Lockwood, your guide on this journey of exploration intothe heart of inclusion, belonging, and societaltransformation. Ever wondered what it truly takes to create aworld where everyone not only belongs but thrives?You're not alone. Join me as we uncover theunseen, challenge the status quo, and sharestories that resonate deep within. Ready to divein? Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding downafter a long day, let's connect, reflect, andinspire action together. Don't forget,you can be part of the conversation too. Reach out tojo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukto share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.And today is episode 132 withthe title, inclusivity in the digitalage. And I have the absolute honor and privilege towelcome Luke Morrison. Luke is a technologyand digital recruitment specialist. And when I askedLuke to describe his superpower, he said, it is hisresilience and transformative ability to turnpersonal challenges into empowering opportunities.Hello, Luke. Welcome to the show. Hello, Jo. Thank you
Luke Morrisenguest
very much for having me. What an intro.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
We're just looking forward to this because, we've been chatting with the green room andit's you've got a fantastic story, and I can't wait tohear it myself in detail and also for our guest as well. So,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Luke, Inclusivity in the Digital Age.Tell me more. Sure. So I guess it really
Luke Morrisenguest
just comes down to a bit of my backstory and kind ofwhat happened when I was younger growing up and and the life that I ledand moving into the world of recruitment and being a father.So is there's lots to it. There's lots of moving parts, andI've kind of feel the journey ofbeing at school was was not great for me. The challenges I had,not understanding myself truly and deeply tothen working my way up into lots of different rolesoutside of recruitment, becoming a father, having a son who'sneurodiverse, having a daughter. Kind of now, I'm atthis point in my life where I want to learn more and I want togive back to the community out there. And I I guess for me, thebiggest part is is learning myself and learning on this journey, but alsohelping people like I'm helping my children at the moment understandwho they are and how they can progress themselves and how they cannothave limiting beliefs really. But you're one of those children who are
Joanne Lockwoodhost
messing around and not learning and in the in the bottomset put in the sort of the no hope of class. Was thatwas that you, was it? Absolutely. Unfortunately, yeah, it was.
Luke Morrisenguest
In in all honesty, I was I was never very good atschool. It's not the environment that I learned well in. Sat satdown, being spoken to for an hour, then moving on to the nextclass, being spoken to about stuff that really didn'tengage me was not the right environment for me to learn. And like manypeople, my wife is complete opposite. She loves learning in thatenvironment. My daughter's the same. But me and my son, we are verysimilar where we would get distracted,disruptive, need to need to just set ourselves out of anenvironment. And, yeah, unfortunately, I was the kid thatdidn't learn well at school, didn't get any of my GCSEs,not for not for not wanting them. I definitely wanted to do well at school,and I never bunked off school like I was always present, butI just I just couldn't it wasn't the right environment for me to excelin, and I've seen a lot in that in my son's journey and and it'sit's something that I've become quite aware of now. But do was
Joanne Lockwoodhost
there a particular age that you discovered this or was itright from infant school, if you like, year 1? Age
Luke Morrisenguest
of discovering that school wasn't the right environment for me. Yeah. Yeah. At what
Joanne Lockwoodhost
point did you realize that you you just couldn't learn inin a traditional or contemporary way at at school, the sameway that all your children I I know this sounds a bit odd, but I
Luke Morrisenguest
think I actually think it was probably probably mylate twenties that I found I realized that. I know that sounds a bit strange.I I always thought, and I'll be completely honest, I I thought that Iwas really stupid, really dumb because I didn't dowell at school. I'd never do well in my career as I got older.So I I left school with no g s noGCSEs. I didn't go into upper education. I wentstraight into a building site, working on-site,worked as a roofer, as a landscaper, as a tree surgeon. And itwasn't until I had my children where I thought, right, I need to be aprovider, and I want I want something different for my family now. So that'skind of where I started exploring other avenues and after a few years,got into recruitment. And it wasn't until I was in my latetwenties where I thought, actually, I'm not stupid. Iit okay. I learn in a different way and I'll and I have to bea hands on practical or a visual learner, but it doesn't mean that I'mstupid. And then when my son was born and as he got older, Istarted seeing similar traits as to it was like a mini me. I mean,he looks just like me. He acts just like me. And it's kinda Ikinda realized again, he's not a bad kid atall. He just struggles to learn in that environment. And it kind of solidifiedexactly how I felt when I first discovered that in my twenties.And it kind of kicked off from there, really, and that's kind of set meon this this new journey and the trajectory of supportingpeople that are struggling and helping helpingpeople become aware of the differences in how theylearn and how they interact with people. And it it doesn't you shouldn't just labelthem straight away. Look, you know, you you can't sit and youcan't do this this written test within an hour. So you'rebranded as dumb. That's kinda how I felt when I was younger. But nowI realize that I can do it. I just need to do it in adifferent way, and it's exactly how my son learns as well. Yeah. We went
Joanne Lockwoodhost
through a journey with Arslan now discovering that, he has a form ofdyslexia and some other complications within that kind of readingand processing ability. So, yeah, we we discovered that probablywhen he was about 10 or 11, but having spent manyyears trying to get him to learn to read and nothaving much luck and eventually getting diagnosed. And,yeah, he was at private school at the time, and the private school basically sortof said to us that they they weren't the best place for him. I thinkthey were worried it was gonna bring their grade average down if he wasn'table to pass his exam. So we ended up pulling them both out of school,both our children. But, yeah, it it's it's quite a stressful time as a parent,feeling like your your child isn't isn't respondingin in a way you hope they would. Yeah. Yeah. And that we I mean,
Luke Morrisenguest
the the educational system at the moment, I feel is is strugglingin that sense. My my son was at a school before hemoved and he liked the people there, kind ofgot in with the wrong crowd similar to when I was younger, which thenjust had a bit of a snowball effect onto his behavior and hislearning abilities and his contributions to class.And my wife's been battling we've been battling with the council,the West Birch Council, to try and get him EHCP,try and get on board with SENCO and try and get him some extra helphere inside of school, which is it's actually shockinghow much of a challenge that's been. It's been really draining on my wife. Imean, it's a lot of admin, so I'm not very good on the admin side.So it's the role that she's taken with this. And it's just quite baffling
Luke Morrisenguest
how hard it is to get somebody that really needs to support. And,unfortunately, it comes down to budget at the end of the day. And forand I understand it, but it's when it's when you're in thatposition and it's your child, it's so frustrating to know that theneeds of your child aren't being met just because of a budget. So, yeah,we've we've been through a big ordeal with that. Fortunately, he's moved schoolsand he's been given the grant that he needs for the extra supportand the extra help within school and within the education, andhe's absolutely flying now. I mean, he he's loving it and he's gettinggrades that he'd never thought he could have achieved without that extrabit of support and it kind of it resonates with me and when I wasyounger because I never had that support, you know, neurodiversity,ADHD, I haven't been formally assessed because I'mon the waiting list for that. But every test that we've done formy son and submitted, my wife's gone, Luke, that's you. That's you.That's you. That's you. I mean, me and my wife's been together 18 years. Sheknows me better than anyone. So back then, I thought I was just reallydisruptive and I was thick and I would never amount to doing anythingspecial in a career. And now I see my son going through that, and it'sjust given me a hope now that he's not gonna have that limitingbelief. He knows that his environment needs to be right for him toexcel. Quite common, from what I understand, for people
Joanne Lockwoodhost
to realize something about themselves when they're helpingtheir children through it. That's I've you're not the 1st person to mention that tome. It's it's kind of it's a way of getting the diagnosis withoutgetting a diagnosis. You Yeah. You just go hang on a minute. That's me aswell. Yeah. I guess I guess you see so many similarities in your children and
Luke Morrisenguest
yourselves. You bring them up how you've been brought up and you raisethem with the same morals and values as yourself. So, I mean, it'seasy because he looks like a mini me. It's I was just almost like lookingat a younger version of me. But, yeah, I I I see it so much.My daughter is very much like my wife. She's very academically switched on.She finds it extremely easy to to learn in a in aschool setting. I mean, if you look around my house at the moment, she's sheactually wants to be a teacher, and she's got she does mini virtualclasses to a fake audience, you know, she's 10 nearly 11years old and that's that's who she is and that's how howshe wants to progress her career and that's what she wants to do when she'solder, which is great. It's very much like my wife. So we see verysimilar traits in both my son and and mydaughter. Oh, that's fantastic. I I love that. So you you left
Joanne Lockwoodhost
school Mhmm. As you said, without any qualifications assuch. Yeah. Or not ones you were proud of. Whathappened then? You you you'd say you went to the building site. You starteddoing stuff. Yeah. So I I actually left home at 15.
Luke Morrisenguest
So right just just before my exams andGCSEs were kicking off, I left home. I was kind of raised onfarms when I was younger. It was it was hard graft as as a child.I mean, looking back, it's a fantastic life to live, but when you're in itand you're a teenager and you've made loads of friends at school and they'reall going out seeing their friends and kind of building that friendshipcircle when I'm on the farm working and supporting my parents, well,my my mom, it's it's quite challenging. And II sort of kicked off a bit, and I needed to get out. And soI left home at 15, sofa surf for a little bit.
Luke Morrisenguest
I ended up my mom doesn't actually know this, but I ended up living onthe streets for a for a couple of weeks while I was trying to findsomewhere to live. So, you know, I lived a bit of a lifeup until finding I actually found music at theage of 17. Moved to Swindon, I was workingas a roofer, and I was DJing at the weekends and in theevenings, and that was kind of a bit of a self discovery mode. I've I'vemade quite a lot of friends that are older. My par girlfriend at the timewas nearly double my age. So I kind of started learningfrom others and seeing how they were kicking on with their career and what theywere doing. It was all quite inspiring. And then I met my wife,I was 8 18, 19, moved back to Newbury,where I live, and kind of realized then thatme and my wife were getting quite serious at the time. We then had Frankie,my oldest, and that's when I realized that I couldn'tI I wasn't where I wanted to be at that point. I wanted to bea lot further on to support. We didn't have a house or mortgage or anythinglike that. So that's kind of what led me into recruitment.I worked at the BBC for a for a IT cleaning company,started doing some business development for that business on the side, was engaging with thelikes of ITV. And I was like, wow, this is this is cool. Well, Ienjoy that. I enjoy this side. This is something I never knew I could do.And then I got a job in in recruitment, and it kind of kicked onfrom there. And that's when I started to really believe in myself and believethat I can achieve pretty much what what I put my mindto. Recruitment is quite a cutthroat business, isn't
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it? It's salesy, quite disciplined. So you areyou are able to adapt to that environment quite quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Because
Luke Morrisenguest
it's a structure that I excel in. I excel inI excel in having a day plan and I excel in a real structuredday. Call in the morning, I'm doing this. I know I need to speak tothese candidates, update them on their situation, then I can move on to the clientwork. And there's KPIs and numbers to hit. I'm quite numbers driven.So it was an environment that worked really, really well for me. A lot alot of people it doesn't work for, and that's not an environment thatbest suited to them. But for me in particular, I was the more I wasdoing it, I was getting really quick wins. I gotMVP of the year in in the first recruitment business I worked in. Ibecame top contract biller and I just it just fueled myconfidence. And it was it's it's everything that I needin a career to excel. So that's when Ithen moved into another business. I became a a leader within that company,and after 4 and a 4 and a half years, I thought ofof working within that role, I thought, actually, I need something for myself now. Iunderstand recruitment. I've been doing it for 10 years. So that's when Ibraved up and and set up my own business. Wow.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Wow. Jumping off that cliff and realizing it's just a step.
Luke Morrisenguest
Yeah. That's that's exactly how I felt. I mean, it's I mean, there's, you know,millions of people that go out on their own and and set up their ownjourney, but when you're when you're a provider for the familyand you you've got a good steady income coming in, yourchildren are happy, and you finally got a house that you were were really proudof to then make that jump again. It was something I had to talk abouta lot with my wife and really had to dig down if this is theright choice. And do you know what? Bless her. Straight away, she was like, Lou,I know you can do it from where you've come from to where you arenow. I've got no doubts. If you think this is the right decision, you canyou should go and do it, and you can do it. So it it's whenyou're in the trenches, it's it's not as scary as you think it's gonna be,but it's making that leap in there and and jumping in. That's that's the scarypart. Right? It is. Yeah. Just it's the fear of the unknown. There's
Joanne Lockwoodhost
nothing. We all we all face that. So you're you're intechnology and digital. Is that is that right? Correct. Yeah. So what what whatsort of scope is that? That's that's IT. That's electronics.It's STEM type. Yeah. It it's
Luke Morrisenguest
it's a really tough one for me because of my mydifferences in character. Right? I'm a bit of a magpie. So I like toif I see something shiny, I learn to jump like to jump on it. Butwhat I'm really proud of that I've managed to do is stick within an areathat I've done for 10 or so years. So web developers,software engineers, digital creative designers, productmanagers, That that's the realm that I knowand I understand, and I probably shouldn't start dipping my toe in other areasuntil I've completed this part of the business, and then we can add newparts. But, yeah, it's it's a fascinating industry. You meetsome fascinating people from all spectrums. You know,you get very introverted developers, you get very extroverteddevelopers. So I I really enjoyunderstanding on the on the initial call. I really enjoy that call.I I get I've got a good feel of who this person is. I Iunderstand that they're probably not gonna be, like, to be spoken to in this way.I'm gonna have to speak to them a bit differently to get them engaged andto engage with them. And then once I'm on that journey, I can then startpiecing brilliant. Well, that'll be really good for this client actually because that that client'sgot an amazing culture that can help support them on their journey orthey're good for the role technically, but that definitely won't be the right business forthem for them to go into because it's not an it's not ait's not an environment that will help them thrive. So I feel like understandingmy journey and where I've come from and my son's journey, my children'sjourney, I can now identify blind spots in candidateswhen they're talking about businesses and culture they wanna go into.So I can, yeah, I feel like I've got a good understanding now of howto piece that together and and almost put the puzzle in the in thejigsaw. You said the culture is really important, isn't it? Because
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I've got a an IT, bit of a developer backgroundmyself, and you tend to find you're mingling with peoplein in organizations who are creative. They're marketeers.They're HR or operationsor production. And each of those different skills has a different wayof interfacing with each other. And I find sometimesIT people are stereotyped into this sortof person with a long, you know, long beard looking like Gandalf lockedin a cupboard, no dark. Yeah. Just feed me coffee and and pizza and leaveme alone. To be honest, that's kinda how I was. Youknow? I I didn't want to be interrupted all the time. Yeah. Last thing Iwanted was people people standing over me askingstuff. Yeah. And it's it's it can be quite a a challengefor people who are not used to working with people who are artisans and artistsand technically competent and brilliant because they they often dothink differently, don't they? Yeah. Absolutely. I think
Luke Morrisenguest
it's a really it's a really gray area and it's a thin line toto tread because you you need companies need thosetypes of people. Company needs a developer that's really happy sittingat home, plugging away on their code, maybe working in the middle of thenight and sleeping until 12 o'clock. Some businesses actually need thatand they have many developers or engineers in that environment that workin that manner. But it's kinda like breaking the mold because 8clients would be, look, we we need some we need some diversity within thebusiness. We've got a load of this, but we we need something else.But once I put that new person into that business, how are they thensupporting that individual if they're the only one that works in a certainway or if they're the only one that's really expressive and that can communicateand, you know, is happy to jump on sack all the time and speak topeople, but nobody in the business or nobody in the team wants to talk tothem. It it's a real tough tough line to walk. Like, how do you manage
Luke Morrisenguest
that? And I guess it comes down from it it comes from the top.Like, you have to have really hard conversations with business owners andCEOs and directors of what is their culture, what whatwhat is your culture? Like, don't tell me what you believe it tobe. Like, actually, what does it feel like? Cause I think you'll have a lotof interesting conversations where they explain what they want it to be,but naturally you hear conversations or you look on Glassdoor, you read somereviews, so it doesn't sound like it's like that. So be honest withme. And once you can have those conversations and then you can startintroducing them to people that they've they probably would never have on their radarbefore, I think that's when the fun starts to happenbecause that's when culture starts to change. And I've had it in in previous roleswhere I've been a manager of of, you know, a recruitment team inReading and and in London, and you you havethese conversations with your team and you get to know everyone on an individuallevel. I think it's really important not to have this blanket approach tomanagement because that's where that's what I've seen in the schoolingsystem that doesn't work. You treat all of your pupil pupils as the same. Theyall learn the same. Well, in reality, that is completely false, and you haveto you have to be able to break down barriers. You have to understand whathow does this individual thrive? What how do they like to learn? How do theynot like to be spoken to? And that may be completely different to Janethat's in across from them, but you have to have that different approach.And that's when cultures start to change, and that's when you startintroducing some different varieties of people and different learningstyles, and you kinda see everybody excel in theirown areas. And, yeah, that's where I think a great culture starts tobe created. Yeah. Again, without stereotyping anybody here, the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
there are people who interface better to the computerand less effectively to people. But then there are people who are ableto interface between the deep deeply technical people andthe less technical people. So you end up having these layers of interface where somepeople can translate from human to machine,some people can't. So you have to you have to put people where they're wherethey're best, how they communicate. I remember I was at an eventonce, and I was talking to I think it was a business owner. He wastalking about his IT staff, and he couldn't understand. He'sthese these IT guys, they just don't fit the culture of my organization.They they they grab their lunch. They sit in their car. I wanna take themto the pub. I wanna do this. I wanna do all this network bonding atlunchtime. They wanna sit in their car, eat their lunch. They come back in. Hesaid, I can't cope with it. I think I'm gonna fire them. I'm gonna firepeople who who wanna join him. I said, you really don't get it, do you?That's that makes them happy. And it's trying to incorporate, asyou say, all those different needs of personality typeto get the best out of people and work with them where they wanna be,not all not demand they come where you are. Your culture, actually.Culture has evolved amongst everybody. Absolutely.
Luke Morrisenguest
Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's probably more of a selfish requirement of whatthat individual wanted out of his team rather than what the team wanted outof each other, you know. Yeah. You see it, especially inrecruitment. I mean, it it's it's got its pros and its cons and, you know,people have got some great things to say about recruiters and some terrible things, unfortunately,like many industries, I guess. I've I got into recruitmentfairly late in my life compared to many others around me.I was in a business where I was the only one with children. I didn'twanna go out drinking all the time because I've kind of had a life ofalcohol before. And I was kind of frowned upon and lookedat, like, you know, look, you need to you're you're a manager in the business.You need to be going out with your team. You need to be doing this.And it's actually, like, that's not what I wanna do. Speakingto the team, some really enjoyed and wanted to do that. Somereally didn't. So then we started creating a world where, cool. Well,we'll go and do this this time, and we'll go and do this another daybecause, you know, you you start then changing yourenvironment. You're you're changing needs for other people
Luke Morrisenguest
and then you you're becoming more flexible. And that's reallyreally I guess people really value that as a leader and valuethat as a business. You know, sales culture and in recruitment, wehad lots of people that were Muslim that didn't drink, and that was a boldstep for a man a manager to go out drinkingwith them. And he's kinda like, mate, is that the right thing to be doingwith your team where you got people in there that don't drink? And so, well,a lot of the people do. It's like, okay. But how do you create asafe environment where they feel like they should be there and they don't wannago home early or they don't wanna attend it? It's it's tough, but youhave to be brave and you have to make some brave decisions. And I thinkyou've you've gotta put your selfishness to one side and reallylisten your team and get to know them. That's a really good point. I I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
gave up drinking. I stopped drinking 945 days ago,not that I'm counting. Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible the amountof life and work business that revolvesaround drinking in some way, whether it's your meeting in the pub,you're watching the football, you're watching the Olympics, whatever it maybe. And suddenly when you don't drink, how youoften feel excluded.Because why would I want to go and spend an evening with a lot ofpeople who were drinking? Because after about an hour, it becomes really tedious,and I can't drink that much water or that much lemonade or whatever itmay be. So, yeah, it it does exclude the people who arefor whether it's chosen, a faith, or a need to stopdrinking. Often our workplaces are places wheredrinking is still centered as part of the culture. It's a bit like smoking was15, 20 years ago where to be in the in crowd, you had to bein the smoking group outside in the in the pouring rainsmoking with each other. That was kind of the place to be with the bosswho smoked, wasn't it? And things happen in thedrinking zone as well. Deals are done. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke Morrisenguest
Absolutely. I mean, I've I'm I've congratulations on your sober journey, bythe way. That's that's really good stuff. I've I've dipped in and outof alcohol ever since I was a teenager. When I wasDJing and working and live and working on-site, itwas full of builders that went to the pub at, you know, middle of theday and then I would go out into clubs still where you could smoke inin a club and I'd be smoking and drinking. My life was consumedby alcohol and, you know, other parts that come with with that lifestyle.When I had my children, I kind of knew the effects itwas having on me being a dad, being a a goodhusband. It took me a long time to get to where Iam now where I finally decided to stop completely. I would do6 months here, 9 months out, go on a real big healthkick. In the back of my mind, I always thought, well, Christmas is comingup. So I'll drink at Christmas, and then that'll I'll be drinking again. It's fine.So I was always working to a a milestone. About 4months ago, I decided to pack it in, and I have had noregrets whatsoever. I mean, I've got no milestone in my mind that I'm gonnadrink. I'm going on holiday with the family in a few weeks, andit's not even on my radar to have a drink right now. It is I'mI'm beyond that. This is this is a turning point in my life because itis, personally, it's no good for me. Lots of people can have theodd drink here or there, and it doesn't affect them. I am all or nothing.I've demonstrated that in a lot of things that I do in my life. Sofor me, I have to make that decision. It's really tough at work because Iwanted to do this. It was really tough in employment, actually, isprobably a better way to put it, because I wanted to give out alcohol whenmy kids were born. But working in the sales environment, you know, I wanted toprogress. I wanted to show the the managers and the the businessowners that I was committed. Along with that comes turning up toevents, being fun, being engaging, not being the oddone out. So you end up drinking loads and loads and loads. And it itwill it actually wasn't achievable, which is sad. I think that's reallysad. I actually interviewed somebody for for my business a
Luke Morrisenguest
couple of weeks ago, and he's a young lad who similar journey to me, buthe's identified it really early. He doesn't wanna be involved in the culture, thedrinking. And he's actually left that business and joined another really goodrecruitment business off the back of that. And that's that was a moment where Ithought these are the types of people that I wanna hire. I wanna hire peoplethat understand who they are or they they I don't want toput anybody in an environment where they don't feel safe or theyfeel like they have to be somebody that they're not to fit in. So thatwas a real sort of standing point where I thought, wow, that's, you know, that'sgiven me a good understanding of what I want the company to be, but alsoit gives you a good insight as to how poorly people are doing it atthe moment. I remember I was invited to a a
Joanne Lockwoodhost
3 day reunion weekend probably about acouple of years And the person sent through this agenda, and it itstarts off with gin tasting, then there was a wine taste, then there waswhiskey tasting, And it it went on to lunch, pre dinner drinks,bottle of wine per head with the meal, aperitifs,whiskey, whatever. And I just went back and said, look, I don'twanna be miserable or upset anybody or or or make it a bigdeal, but it doesn't sound like it's for me. The wholeagenda has alcohol as part of the agenda item.So it's not an afterthought. It's it's kind of driven by it. And they theycame back and said, well, we can do you a we can do a aa different cost if you're not drinking. I said, no. No. You missed the point.It's the fact that everything is centered around alcoholbeing a core part of the program, and that's just not forme. And I don't wanna put myself in an environment where I'm sitting aroundwatching people get drunk because that's what happens. And we know the behaviorchanges after I'll drink up a glasses. Soit's I I now actively take myself out of those spaces inthe same way that when I gave up smoking, I actively took myself out ofspaces where people smoked. You know, people were gonna have this meetingoutside in the smoking area. Or if I was with a group of friends inthe pub at the time, they said, we're gonna go for a cigarette. I'd say,go on then. I'll stay in the pub. I'm not gonna join you. I'm notgonna add me to you to go and socialize where you want to socialize.So how about you hang on here with me? Oh, no. No. No. So Ithink I think we've gotta start taking a stand as asnondrinkers and even say, oh, I can give you a Becks Blue or aPeroni 0 0 or something like that. Yeah. I'll have that if I'm in anevent where that's the option. But I I won't be looking forward togo, oh, look. I can have a 0 bid. And I yeah. I'm looking forso I go for different reason now, but the thing I've I learned about itabout myself is that I now make smarter, betterchoices. It's 10 o'clock. I'm feeling tired. I'mgonna go home. When I was drinking, it was like, how many more can I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
squeeze in before the last train? Oh god. Missed the last train. Where can Istay tonight? Well, we'll go clubbing then. I'll I'll find somewherelater, and then you end up sleeping on Waterloo Stationgripping onto your laptop with a with a cup of coffee in one hand andyour laptop with a pillow in the other hand, waking up with a with alap full of cold coffee when and no trains left because you've fallen asleep, missedeverything. So I've been there, and I've got so many friends whowho's who tell these stories of me, and theyalways revolve around being drunk or beingsilly or being whatever. And it's since I've gone to thepoint in my life where I didn't want my life to be rememberedby as a as a drinker in that way.And both of our children have a story about me being drunkon holiday in places, and I thought blimey. You just take aone eyed look at yourself. That's not who I who I want to be. AndI I think, again, going back to what I said earlier, as a society, asa as a in the world of work, we send to alcoholin the same way you used to send to smoking and alcohol. We've moved onfrom smoking. Let's move on from alcohol being sent because it itdoes exclude. It's still the in place to be in the pub, whichis why many women feel excluded because many of my femalefriends do not wanna go to the pub more than for for half anhour because it gets messy. Things things change.And it's not a safe space in a in a drunken environment for for manywomen and many other people as well, but, yeah, women especially. And they theyplan their nights out around it. And if this is being done in thoseenvironments, people are gonna be excluded. I think that's we've gotta change ourrelationship, haven't we? Yeah. Well, the the trouble is, I mean, our
Luke Morrisenguest
our society here in Britain is so alcohol is sucha big and I've when I get stopped drinking, I've I've never proclaimed thatI'm gonna keep harping on about it and, you know, telling everyone aboutmy journey. But as as we've discussed it, I think it's important to mention oursociety is built up around alcohol, and it is it is a huge partof everyday life. I mean, I've got friends that don't deem themselvesof alcoholics, and they'll drink every day a couple of beers, whichis fine, but it doesn't affect their life and that I could never do that.It doesn't affect their life. They can still go on and achieve great things and,you know, families and all sorts. I I really strugglewith I really struggle with are we ever gonna get past thispoint. I'm seeing more and more sober people than I've seen before. Ithink there's a lot more people becoming aware of it, seeing the benefits inothers. I mean, I could talk all all afternoon about the benefitsof not drinking alcohol. But as a society, it'sso embedded into who we are now. I can'tsee it changing more than it is now. The pubs are gettingmore expensive. It's probably gonna stop people drinking a bit more. I get that.But it then bleeds into the workspace. And how do you
Luke Morrisenguest
how do you create an environment where people can havealcohol for the ones that do want to go out on socials andthat, you know, they do drink, and then how do you create that environment forthe ones that don't want that without excluding one another? It's a real it's areal tough one. I don't know the answer. I'm still early into this journey,of course, but I definitely feel like you needto understand everyone on a deeper level, get to know them individually,get to know what they want, what they don't want, and then coming up withideas that, you know, maybe go out and do an event that doesn't involveit. And the ones that that wanna crack on and do that and drink inthe evenings, go and drink in the evenings because I guarantee the sober ones wantto go home at 9 o'clock or 8 o'clock and see their families and relax.That's where I am now. Yeah. I I agree. I I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
think one of the things you can do as an organization is make a standand say nothing we ever organize will have alcoholincluded. Alcohol is can be an option. You can go and buy ityourself, but the business will no longer fund alcohol purchases,and that includes expenses policies. You know? Zero tolerance toalcohol on expenses. You know? A drink with a meal is notalcohol. And as soon as businesses start taking their very proactiveattitude, alcohol will always be includedand paid for by the business. Therefore, people always abuse it. I mean, II've I've got a gold star in abusing expenses policies with alcohol.It's it's abusing parties. I yeah. I'm not tryingto play white to the white here. I've been that personwho's collected trays of shots while it's still happyhour or free at the bar, put them under the table, and bring the wholetable and start collecting alcohol so you got free drinks all night. I've beenthat person, and I'm not proud of that. I look backand think, well, that was the culture that was there. Everyone was doing it. And,I guess, the organization, the company knew that they're gonna end up with a a30 k alcohol bill, but it was all seemed to be worth it. So, yeah,it's we've gotta have to start having 0 tolerance and organize things thataren't based around alcohol until we do. That's the right thing to
Luke Morrisenguest
do. Yeah. Because it ruins people's lives, and I'm not not being
Joanne Lockwoodhost
that as a reformed drinker. I'm not trying to implant myperspective on everybody else, but, yeah, it does ruin people's lives. And we see Iwas just just to put a date stamp on this recording,we were we had the race riots couple of weeks ago in the lastthe last 10 days. I've seen some of the stories about people who werecharged and imprisoned as a result of it. Someone just literally walked out the pub.All their mates are going, come on. Get out here here. They're all fueled outdrinking, and suddenly their their life has changed because theymade the wrong decision after a few drinks. Andwe know that it it gives you it it removes yourobjectiveness and your decision making power. Yeah. II Tricking and driving are things. I I genuinely believe
Luke Morrisenguest
nothing good comes from alcohol. I do I I can't put one pointin my life where alcohol's contributed to anysuccess or any positives in my life. I can't okay. There may benights where I had a really good time. I had a had a good laugh,but I have some great great times with my friends not drinking. I went ona stack date not too long ago, and it was really tame. Don't get mewrong. It wasn't a stack stack do. We're all, you know, late thirties now,but it was I I had an amazing meal. I sat there.I had 2 alcohol free Guinness's, and I drank water or diet coke for therest of the night. And I was I came home and I was so sohappy and proud of myself that I've managed to have a great night withgreat friends, not drunk. And I woke up the next day. Idid what I needed to do. I was present for my family, I was therefor my children, we you know, I'm I'm doing more and more with my familynow than I ever done. But it's because the most importantthing to me right now is family. The second most important thing is getting mybusiness off the ground and making it a success for my family. And I can'tdo that whilst I'm drinking alcohol because it then consumes me as aperson and all all I end up doing is being analcoholic in so in a sense. Yeah. Having a hangover waiting for the next drink.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. Kinda how it was. Yeah. Absolutely. So if you're if you're at different stageof your life where it it helps you relax, absolutely, then fine.I'm not here to police you as you are. But you but yousometimes you just need to step back and look at your life. Yeah.And, work out how much of it's consumed or dominated by having adrink. And then when you stop, it really is it really isnoticeable how how much everything revolves. And the other thing, my wife andI, we're trying to lose weight. So you you you realize how much life revolvesaround eating and drinking. Mhmm. It's part of yoursocialization. I guess it's a human thing. So, yeah, it's yeah. It doesdominate your life and Yeah. So many Saturday mornings and Sundaymornings that you can get I can get out of bed till midday orthey're feeling rough afterwards and then you have another drink. Youstill feel rough. You drink through it. Yeah. It's
Luke Morrisenguest
it's a forever going cycle, isn't it? That's the trouble when it's, it'suntil you've been until you brave up and you go, well, I don't wantthis anymore. If you've know if you knew that if you've known for a longtime that it's not something you wanna keep doing, when you finally get to thatpoint and you you break it okay. It's a bit scary.It's a bit daunting at the time and, you know, you think that people aregonna look at you differently or treat you differently. That's onlythat's I feel like that's their own insecurities ratherthan, you know, they're probably a bit jealous because I think a lot of peoplewould love to stop drinking, but just this part of society, they can't. Whenyou do that, you realize how how easy it is actually and how muchmore life you get back. I always I remember James Cordon talkingabout alcohol. I can't remember exactly what it was, but he would say wheneverhe drinks one day, he gives the day back to alcohol. So it's 2 daysgone of of his life because of the hangovers. I mean, my hangovers would I'dhave a couple of pints on a Sunday, and I'd fill it until Wednesday.So my hang of hang overs are a lot longer, but you you give thatlife away to that to the alcohol. And I've got that life back, and I'vegot that time back. So now I've been putting it into the family and intothe business, and it's, you know, it feels like the perfect time to stop, Deborah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Do you think your ADHD or your neurodiversityfueled that kind of addictive behavior? Wasit could you I'm not saying blame it on that, but could you see asign where it was that all or nothing totally?
Luke Morrisenguest
Yeah. Absolutely. Like I said, it's not understanding my son'sneurodiversity and the the way that he is with things, he is verymuch all or nothing. I am all or nothing, and it is abig part of ADHD. So you when I get into something, I getinto it. I'm not a fad where I'll do lots and lots of different thingsand, you know, do a jack of all muscle and I know I will putall my time into the thing that I love at the time. Same withgolf, like, I I love golf. That is my hobby. That's my timeaway. When I was in the gym a lot, I was doing bodybuilding. I wasyou know, that was my thing at the time. But I've always kept golf andgym in my life. Alcar was something that I just couldn'tcouldn't do a little bit of. I and I said to my friends all thetime, they're like, surely you can just sit here and have one beer. I waslike, I could. Of course I could. But I will go home and I wouldwant another beer. And then it's taken over my weekend. AndI would I've lost my weekend's outcome. My family's lost theirdads to, you know, being down the pub with friends. It's just it'sjust not important to me. And now I've realized this, and now I've understoodwho I am as a person. And I'm still on that journey. I'm still veryinfant into understanding who I am. But now I'm on thisjourney, I realize what's good for me and what's bad for me andhow addictive I can get to tosituations and alcohols, and it is part of neurodiversityand ADHD. I definitely a lot a lot of people that drink a dthat have ADHD shouldn't drink because it is an addictivetrait. So, yeah, I would definitely pass it on to that.Blame blame ADHD. Well, no. But it's it's all part of
Joanne Lockwoodhost
that hyperfocus. It's all part of that. I mean, I Iknow I can't I can have none, but I can't have1. 1 is 10. Yeah. Yeah.Or or it's or feeling that you need 10.Even even if I have 1 and have to leave, it's like, oh, one more.We'll we'll finish somebody else's off. You know? That's the worst thing. Yeah. Do you
Luke Morrisenguest
know what? I've given up recently as well because I'm now on this journeyof healthiness and, you know, being healthy as I grow olderand being there for my family. I've actually given up coffee andit is that's I was as shocked with givingup coffee and the effects it had on my bodythan I was when I gave up alcohol. I mean, my myfocus now and I do struggle with focusing at work when I'm on my ownin my office and I'm I'm, you know, grinding out, trying to get the businessup and running. Coffee and if I would say and maybe have6, 7 cups of coffee a day. Now I don't drink it, and I'mthrough that period of not drinking on, what, 2 months now,I am so much more focused at work. I sleep a lot better. It's Ijust I had no idea. But again, it's an ADHD thing. You know,if you're if you've got that type of personality, you shouldn't really bedrinking coffee or drinking alcohol because you can't get addicted to it. And youcan end up, you know, it can change who you are and how youwork. Yeah. We we we share another similar thing. I I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
gave up caffeine for about 8 8 yearsago. Did you? I being with an IT background, it's almost likeyou'd you've been working all night. You'reengrossed in something. You you'd stand up for go to the toilet, get acoffee, or you you wait for something to compile or wait for something to loador doing something like that. You go and grab a coffee or out in theold days, go have a cigarette, have a coffee. And then I remember walkingaround Sainsbury's about 8 or 9 years ago, and I remember myI felt really, really uncomfortable in my chest. I felt really kinda like I waspulpitating. And I started doing someanalysis of this and realized that it was coffee. It happened before when I hada a Red Bull weekend a few years before, but I realized that coffeedid it. So now I drink decaf. I still drink too much decaf.But I if I have a if I have a full strength coffee now,I can feel it. If I have 2, I've I I start feeling my chest.It's going funny. I start feeling hyper. I feel kind of reallyuncomfortable. And, so, yeah, I I know what caffeine does to me now, whetherI'm whether I've developed an intolerance to it over my life or whetherI'm just masking it because I was doing so much of it. But, yeah, II I have a very high or low threshold of tolerance for forcaffeine. Well, you you get used to it after time, don't you? Your your body
Luke Morrisenguest
becomes numb to the effects of it, same as alcohol and, you know,any substance that you do more and more and more of, you becomeused to it and it doesn't have the same effect. So I've not I refuseto have a coffee now because of the headaches I got after stopping. I mean,I had 3 or 4 days of in the middle of the night pounding. Iwas I was googling it, which you should never do when you've got a headache.Don't ever Google anything like that. And then it and then Ikind of so the reason why I stopped is when we had that first heatwave about two and a half months ago, and I couldn't drink during the couldn'tdrink hot drinks. I was like, no. I'm gonna give it a rest. And thenit got to Sunday, and my head was pounding. Laura was like, if you changethis in your diet like, she was getting quite worried. And then so, actually, II haven't drunk coffee for 4 4, 5 days. And then she's like, Ireckon it's that. And then we looked at it and because it itrestricts the capillaries in your brain to stop the blood flow, which is why whenyou stop, your capillaries open up and that's when you get the headaches. I was,oh, I'm not gonna drink it now if it if it's been I struggle enoughas it is with my with my brain getting blood in now. I don't wannadon't wanna add to that. So, yeah, I gave gave it up after the backof that. Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah. It's, it's really ask if we we
Joanne Lockwoodhost
can share any of our stories.We both got addictive personalities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. But I thinkit it just take it just takes something in your life. As you as you'vesaid eloquently many times, it's around finding thatfocus about your family. You're you're turning your hyperfocus, if you like,on on your social side, your family side, getting gettingpleasure and satisfaction at the love of your family,which you can't do that when you have another monstertaking over. Yeah. It's a really nice way to frame it actually
Luke Morrisenguest
because I'm I always look at myself, oh, maybe I'm never happy enough. Like, I'malways looking for the next thing. Like, that's part of my personality, butactually framing it. And, like, my hope and focus now is my family.That's a real I've not I've not thought about it that like that before. That'sa really nice way to look at it. And I I look at the challengesmy children have had. You know, even my wife, she she's inbrilliant roles. She's worked at a great company for a long time. She leftto take a step up in her career and with a new with a newcompany, and unfortunately, it didn't go to plan. Her manager left. She was leftwith lots of stuff on her plate, and it threw a downwardspiral. She was off work. She's never been off with panic attacks oranxiety. She was extremely she was in a really dark placefor a long time, and that was my it's like a commitment
Luke Morrisenguest
now. I wanna build something so she doesn't have to work, so she can dosomething that she really loves doing. I know she loves her role now, but Iwanna I wanna create a life for my family that is special. And Ithink understanding my family and where they've been and my children,I've I really believe that we can help that with other peoplelooking for jobs and companies that are hiring and taking myexperience with speaking to incredible people that areperfect for their business because of their culture, not just because of theirtechnical skills. I think there's some really nice there'ssome really nice nuances within there that I can help matchthat. I'm still on this journey. It's still very early for me. I've gotlots and lots to learn and, you know, podcasts like this and speaking to peoplelike yourself really help contribute towards that. But, yeah, it'sit's I feel like it's the right time for me. I'm I'mmaturing finally as a person.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I think that we I think well, I think we all go through, but someof us go through it later in life where you you finally start to understandthe game of life. You realize what it really is all about, what are theimportant things, what things you'll you'll grow to regret that youdidn't do rather than things you do do sometimes. And lookingback and saying, actually, that I don't wanna keep keep repeating the samethings I'm doing. Actually, what I want is this. And it's almostreframing. You don't have a work life balance. You have a life balance that allowsyou to live your life and then feedthat with what you need to succeed. You know, II talk about I'm much more I'm talking about sufficiency nowrather than gluttony. I went through a phase of my life where I was Iwas gluttonous, if you like. I wanted bigger cars. I wanted I wanted to compete.I wanted more of this, more of that, more of the other. I'm not sayingI still don't buy things. I still buy things, but I don't it's not aboutcompeting. I buy it because I want it. Mhmm. I enjoy it, and I'llget some benefit out of it, not because it's the biggest one or the newestone. I'm I'm driving a 17 year old car, and I loveit. I own it outright. I don't owe anybody anything apartfrom the tax on a monthly basis. But, yeah, it's it's mine outright, whereas inthe past, I had to have the the latest. I've had X Fives.I've had 4 series convertibles and turbo this andturbo that. I mean, because it's it seemed to be what right nowsay, sufficiency is is kind of a model I'm happy with. I've I've gotsufficient for now and next week, maybe next month. That's allI care about. It's confidence in in what you're what you're looking for and what
Luke Morrisenguest
you want, isn't it, really? I mean, you're you're confident that actually you don't youdon't wanna be chasing the big cars and all that because it's not important toyou and who you are and what you're about. You know, as a salesperson,you typically, you'd have your Lambos and your Ferrari stuck up on yourboard behind your computer and all that kind of stuff. And I've I've hadnice cars, and that stuff isn't important to me. It's you know,I drive a an electric car. It was good because it's through the business.You get a tax relief off it, which is why we got it. But what'simportant to me is making sure my wife's pension is maxed out when we'reolder and my children's pensions are maxed out if I can. And, you know,if I can put the effort in now, you know, I could get to apoint hopefully when I'm in my fifties that my wife canshe knows it. She's got a full pension max out for her. That that's thegoal for me and that's that's what I wanna do. I wanna I wanna beable to support support my family. And that isn't that
Joanne Lockwoodhost
the I I call this the definition of freedom.Freedom is is is the ability to make a decision about what you want todo, the the freedom of choice. Knowing that you have themeans and the support and the whatever it may be, thesufficiency around you to to do that. So what you're trying to say isyou want yourself, your wife, your family to have freedom of choiceat this point in their life to do whatever they wanna do. And if thatis stay in work, stay in work. If it's not, let's do this. Goodtraveling, sit in the sun all day. It's one part building that freedom, isn'tit? Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, growing up on the farm,
Luke Morrisenguest
my mom worked very hard and, you know, she had 3 boisterousboys at the age of 18 and we, you know, we were roughand tumble kids and she she did what she could. I mean, she she's hadan amazing career. She's got a brilliant business. She's winding down for retirement.You know, really proud of what she's achieved, and I wanna be able toachieve that now for my family. Imean, it's gonna take me a long time. Don't get me wrong. I'm not I'mnot baffled and deluded. And, you know, this time next year, it'll be happywe've been going 2 years, close to 2 years now. So I think I've gotanother 10 years of hard graft until I can sit back andsee the plan evolving. But, yeah, that's what I I want them to havethat flexibility and freedom, and it's not something that I had when I was younger.No fault to my mom who was trying to do the best she could forus, but it's it's given me that motivation. And it'sespecially, you know, being so close to my family andand really being present with them now, it's even more of a driver.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It talks about culture and whenyou're working with organizations around trying to place candidates,persuade candidates this is the right opportunity for them, persuade the opportunity this isthe right candidate for them. Are you seeing in the in the sort of thetech sector that you work in, the digital sector, representation of abroader demographic, or or is it still the usual suspects? Are we seeinga a broader gender balance? Are we seeing a broaderethnicity balance? Or are we stillstereotyping into the traditional candidates? We are
Luke Morrisenguest
definitely seeing a broader ethnicity balance. Definitely,I feel. Gender balance, it's on people's radars, butit's I don't think they've got strong enough initiatives to supportthat. I think businesses want tohave a a less of a gender gap. It's probably a good way to putit. But they're unsure of how they can do that. How can theyattract females or males, whichever whichever way there'sthe imbalance. So I definitely fit all yeah. I II feel like it's on their agendas, but it's it's soearly into their journey. They haven't reallycreated them something substantial to onboard them. Like, how howare they gonna support a a new female developer in an allmale business? Like, what what are you doing to support that person comingon board? How are you gonna stop all the conversations based aroundfootball or, you know, whatever gender topics popup? It it it's Yeah. The lab culture, the Yeah. Grow environment
Joanne Lockwoodhost
sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I I I I'm speaking to more and
Luke Morrisenguest
more people and especially since setting up the business that lots ofclients come to us and it's something that they want help with and theywant our support on. But I don't know if alot of them are actually ready for it. So there are a lot of theconversations we've had. I'm like, are are you are you saying it because it's atick box exercise, or are you actually truly needing to changethis because the culture is so bad and because you want the business to evolve?So it's it's digging down on on that topic and reallyunderstanding their needs and their situation. I am worriedthat some companies do it as a tick box exercise, which is a bit sad,but I've spoken to some brilliant companies the last few months that are it ispart of their agenda, and they're driven to change. So I I feel likeit's moving in the right direction. I don't know how, I mean, don't knowhow you would see it from from when you were working within that world,but I it's probably changed a lot. I think it I think it mirrors
Joanne Lockwoodhost
what what you're saying is there's a lot ofwillingness out there, but a lot of it is, I would say, passive.They're kind of expecting it to fix itself, or they're just magicallyexpecting more women, for example, to apply for a role and they don't, you know,well, okay. No worries. We'll just hire one of the men. Mhmm. So it's alot of passive. There's not a lot of what we call active, deliberatetargeting, you know, positive action campaigns, looking at their recruitmentmarketing, their employer brand, sorting out their own culture first,and having honest conversations with young women saying, it's a bit of a bit ofa lad culture at the moment. We're trying to change it. We need your help.Mhmm. Are you prepared to give it a go with us and, and work withus on this? You have our we have your back. Nobody wants to be thefirst, and that's that's the tough one, isn't it? If you're Yeah. Feel brought asthe first and the only. We see so many examples of women coming intothose environments, and then it's it's just not fair on them. Theculture isn't evolving around them. That's that's that's the point that needs
Luke Morrisenguest
to be made. It's like when you do when you do change the culture andwhen you do start becoming more inclusive and thinking outside ofthe realms of what they deem as norm and hiring some goodtalented female engineers or, you know, whatever thatinclusive piece that's missing is how is that persongonna feel when they join this business? Are you are you just trialing itout to then make the people got to understand,these aren't just CVs. They're actual people behind these CVs. So youmay have an initiative. You may wanna bring some females on board. But onceyou do bring one on, it's almost like trial and error. It's like,that's not that's not the right way to be doing it. The when you mentionedto me just then, you kinda said, like, look, it'sit's that has a real honest conversation. We need your help. We arestruggling. We want to do this. We want you to run with it. That's thebest type of conversation you can have with somebody in that situation because they'rethey're showing they're vulnerable. They know they've got a problem, and they're looking for helpand support to get them through this period. My piece of advicewould be hire more than 1 at one go. Hire hirea select range of people all at once, all differentethnicities, female, gender, whatever. That's whatI would do. But don't just hire one person as a trial and error pieceand see if it works. And then, you know, because there's a lot of changeand there's a lot of work to do in the background to make sure thatindividual feels safe and they feel comfortable and they they feel thatthey're wanted and that they're needed. Yeah. I agree. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It's you say if you bring several people in together,even if it's 1 woman and 2 men, you'rediluting the norm. You're disrupting the currentculture and creating a new culture by just by the number of people. So,yeah, I think if you start day 1 and you're the only one, if youstart day 1 and you're one of 5, then you have a chance tohave new new allegiances. You can build bonds and and and relationship with those peopleas well. Yeah. So, yeah, it's it doesn't necessarily have to be 5 women, but
Luke Morrisenguest
No. No. Absolutely. And they're people. Yeah. They're the future of the nextgeneration of the business. Right? So if if they're all onboarded together andit's not just one singular, it's a group of new employeesand they're all together there. And if you match the culture, and thisis this is what's really important is making sure you find the right people forthe right culture. If you can match the right people, not just the
Luke Morrisenguest
CV to fill a void, like, that's what we try and do is, like, thatthis you've spoke to me about your culture. This is what your this is whatworks inside for this person could benefit and actually the culture isgood for them and they, you know, vice versa. They're on that journeytogether. So 5 years down the line, the norm of you know, that's thenorm for them. All the people who have been in the business long standing priormay have left, and then you there's more people coming through the ranks. That's howculture changes. You can't change it overnight. It isa long lengthy process, but you've got to stay committed and you'vegot to be humble enough to accept what's going what's working andwhat's not. I mean, you yeah. You got it's gotta be committed. I agree. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
For sure. Luke, it's been absolutely fascinating. You know, I said at thebeginning when we're in the green room that about an hour and I'd say, well,what a fantastic conversation. And I was right. It has been amazing. How canpeople get a hold of you? Sure. So we I guess the
Luke Morrisenguest
best page would be on our our website. So it'swww.holistx.io. That'sholistx.io. Catch uson LinkedIn. If you're looking for work or struggling withinternally for culture, I'm always happy to help and have conversations.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Fantastic. Or if you wanna share your neurodiversityand experience with ADHD, your alcohol, absentee,coffee problems like we have today, reach out to either of us. We're we're both,accomplished experts on, on absence of,of, I don't know, performance performance changing drugs, I guess theyare, alcohol and and caffeine.Luke, it's been an absolute pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so muchfor your time. Thank you, Jo. As we bring
Joanne Lockwoodhost
this conversation to a close, I want to express mydeepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lendingyour ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing toInclusion Bites and become part of our ever growingcommunity, driving real change. Share this journey withfriends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplify the voicesthat matter. Got thoughts, stories, or avision to share? I'm all ears. Reach out tojo.Lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk,and let's make your voice heard. Until next time. Thisis Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to returnwith more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire,and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive worldone episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood invites Luke Morrisen to explore the multi-faceted landscape of inclusivity in the digital age. Luke, who has navigated numerous challenges pertaining to neurodiversity and ADHD, both personally and as a father, provides a compelling narrative about overcoming adversity. Joanne and Luke delve into the intricacies of creating inclusive environments in the workplace, with a focus on the recruitment industry and the often-overlooked aspect of alcohol-free socialisation. Luke, with a decade of experience in the technology and recruitment sectors, has carved out a niche for himself as a digital recruitment specialist. His journey began tumultuously, leaving home at 15 and struggling through academic environments that did not cater to his neurodiversity. Finding solace and passion in music, he eventually shifted to the structured, numbers-driven world of recruitment, where he excelled and gained the confidence to launch his own business. Luke is not only a successful entrepreneur but also an advocate for creating supportive, inclusive environments for those with neurodiversity. Throughout the episode, Joanne and Luke candidly discuss the challenges of navigating society’s glorification of alcohol. Luke shares his personal battles with alcohol, the role of ADHD in his addictive behaviour, and his journey to sobriety. Joanne echoes these sentiments, having also given up alcohol, highlighting the need for workplaces to rethink alcohol-centric events. The discussion extends to the recruitment industry, where Luke stresses the importance of understanding individual needs and fostering an inclusive culture that values diversity across gender and ethnicity. The episode wraps up with both Joanne and Luke urging organisations to take a definitive stand against including alcohol in work-related events and expenses, emphasising the profound impact alcohol has on decision-making and lives. Luke’s transition into sobriety has allowed him to focus more on his family and business, helping him build a fulfilling life centred on flexibility and choice. A key takeaway from this episode is the critical role of inclusivity in fostering better work environments and the transformative power of supportive communities. Listeners will gain invaluable insights into managing neurodiversity, the importance of addressing alcohol culture in the workplace, and fostering genuine inclusivity that goes beyond ticking boxes. Tune in for a blend of personal anecdotes and practical advice that will inspire and challenge your perspectives on inclusion in the digital age.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Inclusion Bites, SEE Change Happen Ltd or Joanne Lockwood. This episode is shared for general interest and discussion; we accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any statements made.
