Creating Inclusive Work Environments for People with Intellectual Disabilities
Dominique Dehaene advocates for sports as a means to foster inclusion for individuals with intellectual disabilities, highlighting personal growth, societal perceptions, and the need for empathy and equal opportunities.
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuaryfor bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart ofinclusion, belonging, and societal transformation.Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world whereeveryone not only belongs but thrives? You'renot alone. Join me as we uncover theunseen, challenge the status quo, and sharestories that resonate deep within. Ready to divein. Whether you're sipping your morning coffee or winding downafter a long day, let's connect, reflect, andinspire action together. Don't forget, youcan be part of the conversation too. Reach out tojo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukto share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.Today is episode 146with the title, championinginclusion through sport. And I have the absolutehonor and privilege to welcome Dominique Dehaene.Dominique is the national director of Special OlympicsBelgium and a devoted father, and he ison a special mission to promote the socialinclusion of people with intellectual disabilities.And when I asked Dominique to describe his superpower, he said, turning passioninto purpose by driving inclusion, awareness,and opportunity for people with intellectual disabilities.Hello, Dominique. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having
Dominique Dehaeneguest
me. How did I get on with your name? Did I did I get it
Joanne Lockwoodhost
close? Correct. Correct. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Bitnervous there. It's, it's the Flemish pronunciation because you're based inBelgium if obviously, as the national director of Special Olympics. You're based inBelgium? Correct. Office is based in Brussels, but I myself
Dominique Dehaeneguest
live on the French border. I always say I live in the lasthouse in Belgium, so my my neighbor is French, so,very peculiar way of of living. We live onthe countryside, so it's a commute every day from 160kilometers single way, but, it's worth it. I likemy job and I like, where I live, so, best ofboth worlds. Best of both worlds. Yeah. So I guess you're also
Joanne Lockwoodhost
the first house as well as the last house. Correct. Yeah. I didn't
Dominique Dehaeneguest
didn't quite think of that. So, yeah, it itis. It is. Fantastic. So you
Joanne Lockwoodhost
champion inclusion through sport,with a special focus on intellectual disabilities. Do you want to tell us a bitmore about what do you mean by the term intellectual disabilities?
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Well, it's it's, you know, we all know someone with, with anintellectual disability if we start thinking about it. We all knowsomeone with with an intellectual disability.Within Special Olympics, it's, you know,defined as someone with an IQ not higherthan 75, but, you know, it could have been 76, 74,but you know, that's the definition we use,you know, and there's a whole range of people with intellectual disabilities, like there's awhole range of peoplewithout intellectual disabilities. You know, we have people withautism, people with Down syndrome, you know, the, Iwould say the classic people with intellectual disability. Andso what we do is, well, our aimis to, to convince people not to look at theirdisability, but look beyond their disability and look at their talents.And we strive indeed for an inclusive societywhere people with intellectual disabilities, anyoneelse can, can play a full role in,regarding their talents and, disregarding, I would say theirdisabilities. And for us, the means to getthere is sports because sports,it unifies people, we have what we call unified sports aswell, where people with intellectual disabilities play together with peoplewithout intellectual disabilities. But we tryto convince people with intellectual disabilities to do sports andthrough sports, they work on their health, also on mental health.They get much more self confidence. We have seen peoplechange during the course of years. They were very, very shy,would not speak in front of public, would not even engage anyconversation, would now, you know, give interviews in front ofcameras, etcetera. So it's really about self confidencethrough sports and then showing other people what these people withIDD are capable of, not only in sports, but also ineveryday life. So, we work not only with athletes, not only forathletes, we work with athletes, with people with IDD, andour goal is getting to afull inclusion of people with IDD. Yeah, just for anybody who's listening who
Joanne Lockwoodhost
hasn't heard of that. Not to talk about people with
Dominique Dehaeneguest
intellectual disabilities all the time, so, I'll use the term IDD.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
IDD. Yeah. So I'm I'm aware of the term ASD, autisticspectrum disorder Yeah. Or diagnosis or whatever phrasebecause sometimes the word disorder canit implies a stereotype as well, doesn't it? It sort of implies there's something wrongwith you. It's not there's something wrong with you. You're absolutely perfect asyou are. You just have a a different skill set.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
It's about intellectual and developmental disabilities. Youknow, it's the development in which is different,let's say. So Yep. Correct. Excuse me. So it's avoiding the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
word disorder, medicalizing it, pathologizing it. It's
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. Still examining the stigma. People have a different characteristic.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. Like we all do, but there's somewhat moreoutspoken, I would say. I myself have, because youmentioned it, devoted father. I try to be. I'm a father who's notvery who can be pretty absent inour household, but, you know, I, the time I spendwith my family, I make it real quality time. We haveour son, ourselves, a son with autism,his IQ would be 77, so he's not really, he's notcategorized as a person with intellectual disability, but,you know, we know, autism andthe challenges it brings, but also the advantages itbrings. You look at the world differently through the eyes of aperson with autism, especially when you're so closeto him, so it opens your mind, itopens your perspective on some ideas you have,so it opens your perspective on the world. You know,initially because it's something that crosses your path,which you're not expecting, so because mostly it was, he was ourfirst born as well, so it's something you don't expect andall of a sudden it's there in your life. You can't deny itif you would like to deny it, but yeah, it's somethingyou have to deal with and you deal with it and I had the lastSaturday, I did a presentation with my sontogether. We presented our story, well, the story of our family.He spoke in front of a public of 50 people about his life andit was heartwarming to see wherewell, let's say we got him, he got himself. We always had,and I'm trying to do this for the people we're working for now, people withID. Let's not lookat the limits or the limitations on beforehand. You know,it's, if you always say, no, no, no, that will not be possiblebecause of the disability.Yeah. You will never get anywhere. Just go and see where the
Dominique Dehaeneguest
limits are and if if you meet the limits, then you know,okay, this is as far as we can go, but at least youwill have reached that limit and you will not havestayed at the beginning and not have reachedanything. And for some, the limits are pretty close. For others, theywill be further away, but you know,like anyone else, just try to make the best of thetalents you have and try to, youknow, put the limits a little further away always. And secondthing, me and my wife always did, we were always veryopen about our son's disability, autism, you know,it's not something you have to hide or put away.My wife is very active on Facebook. I always say if,my wife didn't, put anything on Facebook during 2days, Mark Zuckerberg calls just to see what's going on.So, now she's very active, but we share, you know, the good stories, but alsothe bad stories. You know, when her son had a meltdown andthere was a crisis, you know, we're being open aboutit, not toridicule him or, but just to say, yes, this iswhat life is also about, but it's also about going to arestaurant and my son at 8, 9 years old,passing by all the tables and wishing everybody a goodmeal where the first looks are you, what the hell, and then you see people,actually, why don't we do this kind of thing more often and wisheverybody the best or a good meal or anything, be morefriendly and more open to each other. So there's a lot tolearn from people with IDD, and that's what we're trying todo through sports. When you were talking, I was thinking, my mind was
Joanne Lockwoodhost
racing on, thinking, when you said something about, you know, your son'sIQ is around 77, the IDD is around 75as as the threshold. And what we we've gotta becareful of if we don't set our expectations on their capability.Because you you got me thinking, so, I mean, I don't know what my IQis. Let me let me say it's 140 or something. I don't know. Is thattypical, I guess? I I hang out with people who have a super highIQ. They're they're chess world grandmasters, and their IQ is 175.Would they how would I feel if they were judging my 140 IQagainst their their world chess champions, almost dismissing mycapability of intellectual reasoning versus their own? I'd bepretty upset. So as you as you were talking about,I completely understand what you're saying there in terms of we wecan't set our limitations on our beliefs about someone's capability.We have to almost embrace their opportunityto be who they are and celebrate their wins andencourage them to do better, to growth to grow within their capabilities. AndI think without sounding benevolent and sort of kind of toomaternal here. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because there are this getting
Dominique Dehaeneguest
back to the the the the sports aspect,you know, what we do, we are an Olympic organization,worldwide Olympic organization. You know, we have the regular Olympics,we have Paralympics, then there's special Olympics for people with intellectualdisabilities, but this is sports, this is competition. This is notjust people with IDD, oh, look at them, how cute they are, they're doingsports as well. No, this is competition. They train to be in ournational games, they train to win a gold medal, they're veryexcited when they win a medal, they're very disappointed when theydon't win a medal, and I have to correct somethingbecause a lot of people always think, yeah, yeah, within SpecialOlympics, everyone wins a medal. No, that's not true. Everyonegets a medal, but there's only 1 bronze, 1 silver and 1 goldmedal, so they learn to win, they learn to lose, theylearn successes and disappointments. So it'sjust like any other sportsman or sportswoman, thisis what they do. But just, we have ourown Olympic oath, which is let me win.If I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt. And Ithink that's something we should all live byin daily life. We are not always successful inwhat we try to achieve. Some things work,some other things don't, but it's sometimesokay to fail if only you try, so that's thespirit we see with our athletes.Just an anecdote. I wasn't there, but in 2023,our athletes came back from the World Games in Berlin, so we haveWorld Games as well, where people like the Olympics, people from allover the world come together to compete in sports.And some athletes, you know, they gain few gold medalsand let's say someone had 4 gold medals. We saw someonewith 3 silver medals. I don't have a silver medal. Would you like to exchangeyour medal for my gold medal? So, you know, they competefor it. They win. They, youknow, they're very glad to win. In the end,it's just sports and it's relative. It's the friendshipand the bonding is, and and self confidence and and thegrowing is at least as important as as the competition. And that'ssomething I think we can all we can all learn from how they liftthings and and We had, our 2 children,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
best part 30 years ago. So they're in their thirties now. And just afterour daughter was born in 1992, our family friends, they hadtheir son. And their son was born with Downes.We, as 2 families, we we went on holiday together. We used to gocamping together and hang out a lot. Their sonwas fully part of our our family group and our ourfriendship group, We and I I I believe I I became a better personthrough knowing him, and our children became better people through knowinghim. And he was just part of a part of the team. Hehad different needs. He he ate differently. His capabilitiesweren't as great. He had, he got a fast pass at the theme parksinstead of having to wait. So he had some bonuses as far as our childrenare concerned. But, yeah, I think I got tolearn that Downes wasn't a disability. It was justhe had a different way of enjoying his life. And he laughed. He cried. Hegot excited, and he he won and and and loved loved beingpart of things. And and he's now in his 30s. Hehas a job. He still lives with his parents because I think that is inevitablythe way it's gonna be whilst there's enough capability to look after him. But, youknow, he he has a very productive life, and he has a girlfriend and doesstuff. And I think if we look back for even40 years, people were written off. They'dalmost said, you're you you this is as far as you can go. Youhave to live in a home. You have to be in 2nd class schooling. Youhave to be marginalized. But I think,correct me if I'm wrong, but the Special Olympics, Paralympicssport is is putting people in a better lightwhere people are just part of society, and we we embrace
Joanne Lockwoodhost
them. Exactly. Exactly. Well, last year well, this year when
Dominique Dehaeneguest
during our national games, I had one volunteer, our oldest volunteerbecause we work a lot with volunteers, of course, it's not, you know, we needvolunteers to organize the activities. I think thisman was 78, 79, something like that, so he wasthere from in the beginning, especially because Belgium startedin 1979, and he saidexactly that, he said, yeah, in the beginning we wereafraid of these people. You know, it's always a bit an awkward momentif you ran into some of them and then, you know, yeah, we were abit scared. He was very open about it and like I said, 4 years ago,we just, as you say, we just put them away in a home and thatwas it. Now he says, if you, if you walk 10 meters in ournational games, you get 15 high fives. It's they're, they're, they're all there. They're allvery enthusiastic. You get hugs, you get high fives. Everyone loves eachother. Everyone respects each other. So we we've come a long way. Wecan't deny that we've come a long way. And I think special inthese worldwide has played an important role in thatand still will play an important role in thefuture, but there is still a long way to go.You know, regarding employment, not all of our athletes, not all peoplewith intellectual disabilities get the chance to, yeah,do a job they like, or they're actually good at. You know,people are still, companies are still a bit reluctant to employpeople with intellectual disabilities. It's not always easy. Itcomes with challenges. Let's be honest about it, but youknow, they can overcome the challenges they live with their wholelife, so why would a company not be able to overcometheir challenges with them? And just that little,everyone needs, has some specificneeds within their job or, you know, where no oneis the same as anyone else, so, you know, there's, they comewith a little more challenges, nothing that can beovercome with little help or the good mindsetfrom, companies or institutions orwhatever. So, yeah, I always thinkthey live with these challenges everyday, so how hard can it be for us to justadapt just a little to, overcomethese challenges with them? Can be that hard, can it?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
We have a cafe locally, a a social enterprise cafe,which is exclusively staffed by peoplewith IDD, I guess you you describe them. And there's about there's asmall team of them. I they probably have onesupervisor who is there to help them with money orother other needs or, I think, maybe sharp knives or or thingswhere there's potentially a danger or where things can go wrong. Butthey are warm, friendly, productive.They work as a team. It's a joy to be there. And I I'maware that there are other social enterprises, certainly in the UK, wherepeople are doing productive work. Not our benevolence.These are profit making, sustainable small businesses.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. Giving people a a a purpose a bit. Like you said about sport,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it's giving people a purpose. That's what we need as humans. We need a purposeand a passion and something to drive us forward, don't we? Exactly. Now I don't
Dominique Dehaeneguest
wanna talk about my son all the time, but he's just in that phase now.So he finished school in June, which was already abig achievement, not easy because he was in the last 3 yearsof secondary school, he was, you know, in a normal school,not another school for people with IDD, which was quite a challenge,so now he's looking for a job, but that takes time,But you know, in September, after 3, 4 months, I just,we as parents said, you can't stay home forever, you have to dosomething, you know, he walks every day, so he gets out,that's not the point. But he started inSuperheroes, it's called, so it's also with people with IDD where theyserve soup and, with some bread, simple, simple things,but it keeps him occupied. We would all getsick if we just stayed home for the rest of our lives withoutsaying it can happen, of course, but you gotta have a purposeas you say, and maybe just one more anecdote aboutmy son. A Few weeks ago, he had difficulties getting out of bed,so my wife said, yeah, she felt something was wrong, butshe didn't want to insist not to go into meltdown,so she left him alone. She left the house andthen a a few hours later, we get a message fromhis supervisor, a text that he sent hersaying, yeah, I was very stressed out this morning. I wasafraid to come to work because I don't socially, I don'tconnect very well socially. I don't know the subjects you're talkingabout at noon. You know, they, they, I don't sympathise with the,you know, I don't feel these subjects. And then I feel obligedto talk with you, but I don't. And then maybe he will be thinkinghe's not interested, etcetera. So it was one big stress in his head,but despite that, he said, no, I can't flee from thestress. So he took the, well, he took the bus, whichis already a 4 kilometers walk from our home. He took the bus, hewent to work, explained to his supervisor what the problem wasand they worked it out. So how manypeople without IDD would do such athing? They would or go to workand stress out all day without even touching thesubject with their colleagues or supervisors or asit happens as well and unfortunately people go in stressand burn out, etcetera, etcetera. So he was, you know, I wouldsay emotionally and intellectually verybright to handle the situation as, as he did. So, yeah,something else we can learn from these people is being open,being, open about emotions or feelings orstress or or positive things as well, of course. So, Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I know many people with social anxiety,extreme introversion, limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, which isdebilitating, or anxiety of using an escalator ora lift or crossing the road. It it doesn'tcome with IQ. It comes with your ownlimiting beliefs, whatever they may be, wherever your red line of fearis. It's it's in all of us. We all have our I can't gothere things. Yeah. It's it it doesn't mean to say that someone withIDD or borderline IDD or autismis any more effective. Maybe it's just more hype we're more hyper aware of it,I guess. Correct. No. And I see it with a lot of our
Dominique Dehaeneguest
athletes who now outperform themselves insports, but also then you hear the stories oftheir parents who say, yeah, this would not have happened 6years ago because he or she was not able to dothis or did not have the confidence to do it, orit's the network who, you know, the people he or she knowsthat lifted him or her up and, madehim do things they wouldn't have done before, be it in school,be it in sports, be it in social context, whatever.So we truly believe that sports is, isan entry to, to, to much more fulfillinglife, I think, I can say. And not only for the athletes,but also for the environment and alsofor, society as a whole. And that'swhy it's so important to organize ouractivities. You know, we're probably the only SpecialOlympics branch in the world who organizes our nationalgames at the level we do. We have 3,400 athletesparticipating. You know, it's in a way it'stheir moment to shine, but it's alsoa moment to show the world, well specifically Belgium, youknow, we're capable of much more than youthink, so yeah, treat us as you would treat anyone,anyone else. So that's why, you know, asI say, sports is an entry to, to, to much more. We want ourathletes not only to train within their sports club, but whynot let them, you know, open the bar or be in the board oftheir sports club or, you know, include them inany other aspects of their club or schoolor job they like and they are capable of. So, and that'swhat we call championing, through sports. We all live in
Joanne Lockwoodhost
our own heads, don't we? But so our our sense of self, our senseof identity, all of our reference points are generated byour own brain. Everything is relative to how we perceive.I don't perceive myself as any different to anybodyelse, really. I mean, I have things I like doing, things I don't like doing,things I'm good at, things I'm not so good at. Presumably, people withIDD, your son included, their reference point ofself has always been the same. They probably don'tperceive themselves as any different than anybody else justwith things they're good at and with things they're bad at. So they probably getquite confused when people judge them or createlimiting situations around them because they gobecause they don't see themselves as being any different to them. They've always been.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. And what we what we do also is what we call playunified at school, where some of our athletes, we call them our athleteambassadors, go to primary school. They talkabout their lives as athletes. You know,they show their medals, etcetera, which always is, youknow, for these kids, they really look up to that. They talkabout their lives as a person with IDD and then what weactually call play unified, they do sports together. But theway these young children look at those athletes and thesepeople with IDD, they don't see thedifference or they, you know, it just, they're very open minded about it andthey say just, yeah, maybe he or she was a bit different, but I didn'treally notice anything. And so that's whatwe try to do is trying to get adultsto look at the same way at people with IDD as these children do.Like, you know, just a regular person, like anyone else witha, with a, with an open view looking at them and saying, yeah, wecan play together with that person without remarking that thedifference there might be. So fromstarting from a very young age, we try to, you know, within 20,30 years, if they can keep that mindsettowards people with IDD, we're one step closeragain to an inclusion, revolution, aswe call it. I often, when I'm when I'm working with
Joanne Lockwoodhost
people, find that the one of the biggest barriers toinclusion is the fear of getting it wrong. The fear of doing the wrongthing, saying the wrong thing, making yourselffeel stupid, or whatever it may be yourself. How do we get peopleto lose that fear of getting things wrongand just having a go, with a warmheart, a positive outlook?Because who is the person who has the limitingcapability is often the person who has thehigher IQ that is not willing to engage. You
Dominique Dehaeneguest
know, I I it makes me think of of, I was,yeah, I made quite a career switch. I've beenin politics before. Just before I did this, I wasworking at National Air Traffic Control in Belgium, not as an air trafficcontroller, but, you know, I was in communication, etcetera. But what Iremember is that contrary to what you would think,engineers would not always and mostly notmake good air traffic controllersjust because they think too much, you know, they overthink and, you know,air traffic controls, and it might not sound very reassuring, but trustme, it is, you know, they have planA for the traffic they're guiding, but they also have inthe back of their minds, a plan B and a plan C and it's notcall it gut feeling, but you know, it's intuition, it'sinstinct, it's knowledge, it's experience, etcetera. It's a skill.Whereas engineers would like, would think too much, would say, yeah,if I do that, then that will happen. And you know, in the meantime,this plane will be 1 kilometer further away than it was whenhe started thinking. So basicallythat's what you're saying. We overthink things too much thinking, yeah, what
Dominique Dehaeneguest
will happen? Or what will people say? Or yeah, well, will I make afool out of myself? And often when you do what you areafraid to do and it turns out, yeah, it wasn't bad atall. On the contrary, it was a good thing and I'm glad I did this.So like my son would do, he said, yeah, peopleare eating, so I wish them a good meal and if they like it ornot, they cannot, you know, they cannot say I didsomething wrong. It's just applied gesture from what Isaid. On the other hand, I have to admit for many years, my sonwould see eating as something very practical. So he would cometo the table, he would eat and he would see no interest insocial communication after the meal whatsoever. So when hefinished his meal, he would, he would leave the table right away.You know, there's an upside and a downside at everything.No, you're right. I think we, one of the thingswe learn as a parent and one of the things we can learn from peoplewith IDD is being more authentic, beourselves, and just see what happens. Andyou know, it's an illusion to think that oneday everyone in the world will, will, will, will love each other.You know, there's personalities you like, there's personalitiesyou don't like, but just be open to one another andhave some empathy to think of what's going on in his or hermind, what makes him think or do this or that. And that'ssomething our athletes or people with IDD, are morecapable of than we are as a regular person, so tosay. There's a military saying or a saying based
Joanne Lockwoodhost
on the military that, no plan, no matter how good itis, ever survives first contact with the enemy. You whatever's going onin your head about what you're thinking, the first time you try and enact thatplan is the fine it's the time you realize you hadn't thought of everything. Ithink what you're saying here, and I I talk about it as often, is youneed to have a plan a to zed in your back pocket. Knowingfull well the plan a, you're gonna get it wrong. It's gonna it's gonnamess up. So in which case, where's your plan b? And it's justonly air traffic control. Realize the plan a is not working.Swap to plan b and just keep working through your plans. And if you runout of plan, finish with, I'm sorry. Please help me.What could I do better next time? Learn a plan a a anda plan a b and a a c. So you've got you've got the
Dominique Dehaeneguest
intent. Yeah. And learn from it and learn fromit. I mean, good intent is always a good start environment. Obviously, good
Joanne Lockwoodhost
intent doesn't get you everywhere. You have to be accountable as well. But it's importantnot to be fearful of making a mistake Right.Otherwise, you're doing it without disadvantaging the person you'retalking to. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And if it appears to be
Dominique Dehaeneguest
a mistake afterwards, just learn from it. Don't make the same mistaketwice. That's not what I'm saying, of course, but yeah, if you don'ttry, you'll never know. So that's, I would say the philosophy Ihave for my private life, but also for, for SpecialOlympics, just, you know, look up the limitsand if you find them, then you know, okay, I've gotten this far andthis is where it stops for now. Maybe later you'llpass another limit and learnsomething new. You will never know if you don't try.And as you say, ask help, because one very important aspect, andwe have to talk about this as well, is of course environment.You know, life is, well, not, let's not be too pessimistic, but lifeis always, is struggle, you know? For some people it is because theydon't get the help that they could use. And this is of course,even more the case for people with IDD. They need morehelp than others. And if there's no help they can relyon, it makes it even more difficult. It's good topoint these things out because as a parent oras supervisor or an acquaintance or afriend or whatever from people with IDD, there arechallenges that are greater than in normal life. You know, like forexample, we have 2 other children, a lot ofpeople, parents of people with IDD havechildren, you know, in normal life, they grew up and theymarry or they get, they leave the houseand start living their own lives. For people with IDD that's not always
Dominique Dehaeneguest
possible. They, so you, that's something,and this is for me very personal at this time. At acertain time you have to start thinking, yeah, what will happen iflife takes its normal course and welive this life earlier than our son, who will take care of himthen? Can he take care of himself? Does he have someone, andyou can't put this on his brother or sister. You know, they havetheir own lives. You can't impose them totake care of him when you're not around anymore. So that'ssomething that many, many, I think all parents of peoplewith, you know, as long as you have them close toyou, you take care of them as you do for your other childrenwith, as I say, with the extra challenges, there comes a timewhen you have to let them go as well, or you have to prepareto let them go, which is practically more challengingand emotionally even more challenging because, yeah,you don't know what's going to happen with, you know, that's with, ofcourse with other children, it's the same, but theycan rely on themselves whilst these people cannotalways fully rely on themselves. So Iwould not say this is contrary to inclusion, butthe inclusion then would be, yeah, how can we,make them, live, anindependent, as much as independent life as possible? So theseare things that I would say the environment of peoplewith IDD comes across, and,for during the lifetime as well, the network iscrucial. You know, you, because forsome, the care you have to take can be veryintense, and then it's good tohave for the grandparents or family or anyone else youcan rely on to say, okay, let's begin. It's abit much for the moment. Can you help us out for an afternoon? Something likethat. So, yeah, environment is very importantand not all people with IDD or their parents havea network they can rely on. I remember something in the the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
UK probably a couple of years ago now is they changed the lawbecause I never realized this, but it transpires thatsocial care support for people with downs stopped, I think,at the age of 50 or something. There was no no provision.And it was based on the fact that people with Down's orIDD had a lower life expectancy,and, generally, they didn't survive their parents oroutlive their parents. So there was a belief that parents wouldbe always there for them. But I guess what you're saying isbecause of the quality of life being provided,the environments, the health, the sport, the diet, theliving standards for people with IDD or downs has improved.Life expectancy is now improving across the board there. Sopeople are living longer, and it's no longer a prognosis of a ofa life where you don't get out of your thirties. You know, you should liveinto your fifties, sixties, seventies, and why not? We have one. We have,
Dominique Dehaeneguest
I just met them this morning. We have, an athlete with Downs who is,52, I think he is. He, likely his, his mom is stillalive. She's 78. She's still very vital, I would say. So thisworks, but indeed that's, I would not say the disadvantageof, of science, but indeed people ingeneral live longer and people with down syndrome, for example, livelonger. So this poses new, whatelse call it, luxury problems, you know, asis healthcare in general, because people live longer, they,but they have more illnesses and diseases, etcetera. Soit becomes more challenging for people in general. And so also forpeople with, with IDD and indeedlife expectation for people with Down syndrome, some 20, 30 yearsago, when it was lower, which also brings me to the topic ofhealth in general. For, for people with IDD, theyhave certain, not onlydiseases, I don't know what the exact word is, but you know, they'rediabetes, obese, they're more obese, like peopledown More susceptible with certain other conditions. Yeah. More susceptible, correct. Thank you. Thank you.Yeah. That's, that's the word. So they're more susceptible to certain, youknow, they have, people with downs havelesser depth vision. So these kind of things wehave to take into consideration. So what we do, we haveduring our national games, we have a healthy athletes programwhere all the athletes participating in our gamescan go for screenings in 8 different health disciplines, youknow, vision, heat, mouth, hygiene, feet, etcetera.And we, we treat them, we'll say, yeah, more specificallyto their needs, because you can ask an athlete, yeah, do you likevegetables? Do you eat vegetables? I don't know. Vegetables. I don't like vegetables.And then we open a book full of pictures and they start,you know, pointing out the vegetables they eat and, yeah, you eat a lot ofvegetables, but they just don't always know it's vegetables.Now that's a positive example, but there's also4 out of 10 athletes that participate in our national gamesare wearing the wrong shoe size. Some of them are wearing2 sizes too small, so it has to hurt. You know, they don'tindicate that it's hurting. We had someone during our lastgames who, you know, was minus 6in vision, didn't even wear glasses. So that proves
Dominique Dehaeneguest
2 things. You need doctors and nurses, etcetera,who can approach people with IDD differently because, youknow, you cannot just ask, you know, are you hurting somewhere? Maybe youare not, you know, that's not going to help. And secondly,it shows that what I call social context,not all parents of people with IDD, forexample, have the means to buy glasses, to buy newshoes every month or every 6 months or so.So there's a lot of things going on around sports and health andinclusion, etcetera. It's always, there might be more going onthan just the eye meets. So that's very important aspect is alsohealth. And we work together with what the Belgian NHS, itis, so to say, so we deliver anonymously ofcourse the data from our athlete screenings, sothey know, okay, this is becoming a real problemin this population and we can,you know, set out a policy to prevent this orwork on this. We work together with universities and highschools where in education, we ask them toforesee one aspect of the training program for people with IDD,how to treat them, how to approach them, etcetera, not onlyin healthcare, but also,you know, in sports or events and other things, so wego way beyond sports and to get to aninclusive society, learning fromour experiences with our athletes and learning from theexperiences parents have with their children orsupervisors have within the institutions they work at,etcetera. So, it's much broader than thansports film, but the entry will always be sports. As you're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
talking now, I was thinking about when our son was younger, He wasabout 9 or 10 years old, and he was struggling at school,struggling with reading, struggling with a number of things. And we,I guess, like many parents, assumed maybe he needed glasses orvision tested, so he took an eye test. And he was diagnosedbeing extremely long sighted. And so he got me theseglasses, and he was wearing these glasses. It didn't improve things. And what we foundwas that he was very reluctant to wear these glasses and would always take themoff. And we we we got to the conclusion that these weren't helping him, andthen what we did was we realized that he wasn't had a problem with hiseyes. He was, dyslexic. So when they wereasking to read out the letters and things, he didn't get the letters right. Hecouldn't read the letters because he didn't know what the letters were. So he wasmisdiagnosed for the sight problem, and it was down to bit. It's,even now we laugh about it. He said, well, I just in the end, Igot tired of of of disagreeing. I just did those that'sbetter. Right. And it's a very
Dominique Dehaeneguest
cynical thing to say. But some people withID, it doesn't show, you know, they look just likeyou and me, so to say, like people with nouns, you know, they havethe characteristics of people. So you see itor some athletes you hear it because they talk differentlyor, you know, they have different eyes orwhatever. But some people with IDD, youwill not notice in their appearance. That makes it sometimeseven more difficult for them because,yeah, then people sometimes don't even believe they haveIDD. Also, if they're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
existing with their own frame of reference, they probably don't see themselvesas having a disability either, do they? They're just them. Yeah.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. My son sorry to come back to himall the time, but my son was interviewed at I think the age of10 or 12, something like that, because we were always open tohim as well, towards him as well about his disability, so wetold him as soon as he was conscious about it, we told him hehad autism, and so at the age of 10, 12 years old, he said,yeah, without my autism, I would not be myself. This is a part of me.This is who I am. So if he was asked the question,if tomorrow your autism could disappear, would you have itdisappear? So he said, no, this is part of me. This iswho I am. And maybe he would be afraid of, you know,if you and I woke up tomorrow and we had atotally different personality, it would scare us as well.So, so yeah, but on the other hand, itis sometimes difficult. You know, these people at a certain timeof their life, they must, for example, admit, okay, I willnever have children like anyone else that would not be,you know, a responsible thing to do. I will not beable to do some things people withoutIDD would be able to do. And and, you know, they that's a factthat is at a certain time, you know,blows you in the face and and and you have to you have to dealwith it. So I'll never be clever enough to
Joanne Lockwoodhost
be a nuclear physicist, or go to the moon, or but I can live withthat. And I guess your son or other people, they'reachieving what they can achieve, and when they wanna achieve it. I think wecreate these social constructs of normality of what people expected tobehave and achieve. Whereas if we reframed it aroundtheir expectation of self, of what they want to achieve,
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Correct. They need to be happy. And be happy with what they achieve. And, youknow, we always, well, mostly we impose more and more, so we achievesomething and then we set the next goal and the next, next, and the nextwithout just being happy with what we've achieved, feeling forourselves, okay, this is my limit. As you say, me neither, I willnever be a nuclear physicist or an astronaut or whatever. Sowe're happy with that. But in the meantime, you know,just the one step above what we are doing now, wealways strive for that without saying at a certain time, it'sokay. This is where I'm happy and I don't need anything else oranything more. So indeed, yeah. And I'm no betterthan anyone else at that. I say for my son, okay, hereaches his limits or he goes further than his limits and it's great,but for ourselves, we'renever satisfied with what we do. We always want more. And
Joanne Lockwoodhost
that doesn't breed happiness sometimes, does it? We're always wanting thenext thing. So sometimes it'd be really lovely to just be satisfiedwith what we have, sufficiency rather than capitalismgoing out of control. Just being happy for someone else, you
Dominique Dehaeneguest
know, exchanging medals, I would say. You know, I'm glad you won thatmedal. I didn't, but glad for you. So you you won it andand maybe exchange medals. You want mine? I'll give you yours. You give me yours,and, yeah, that's a valuable lesson to learnfrom our athletes, but that doesn't mean we keep striving to includethem in more than we think they arecapable of because, you know, they have a right to a fulfilling life asmuch as anyone else. And as I say, we try to encourage people tolook beyond their disabilities andkeep looking at their talents, be it in sports or anythingelse. That's that's what we believe in, and that's really what we strive for, everyday. A lot lot of the challenge, you know, we talk about here is this
Joanne Lockwoodhost
the social construct of what we've decided isevery day is normal. And you alluded to earlier aroundsafety, security, because we set up thesystem in a certain way for people who don't haveIDD or doubts. Therefore, they don't necessarily havethe comprehension of expectation or normality, whateverthat may mean, or the rules of engagement. So it's you know, wetalk about the social model of disability versus the medical model. So it'ssociety has created a model that makes it challenging forthem because it's not based for them. Correct. And that's what we we try
Dominique Dehaeneguest
to, you know, teach them as well as throughsport is saying, it's okay to to to strive formore. You have to train if you want to win.And the goal should be to win. Otherwise you're,you know, there's no reason to compete. The reason to compete is towin and that's okay. And you can be excited when you win. Youhave to be disappointed when you lose, but in theend you have to think, okay, I tried, at least Itried, and if I can do this, I can do other things inmy life as well. If I just try and then I'll see
Dominique Dehaeneguest
how far it gets me, and maybe I will not win, butI might end up with silver or bronze, which is fine aswell. So, strive to be the best person you canbe and be happy about it when you reach that goal.And to society we're saying, you know, they're tryingjust as hard as anyone else and, you know, give them the opportunityto be themselves, to achieve the best version of themselves likeyou are trying to do, But on the other hand, learn fromthem that it's okay tonot always reach your goal or if you justtry. So, that for me is inclusion, acceptingthe strengths and the, you know, weaknesses of disabilitieseven from other people and acceptingeveryone for who they are and giving them the chances likeanyone else would get ordeserve or grasp the opportunitiesthat pass along. We do this in every day anyway. I mean,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm just thinking about golf. Golf is a sport. You havehandicaps. So the people who are beginners,have less capability, are not playingway, way behind. They feel that they can compete against people who are better.And you have the the men's tee and the femaletee, so recognizing that some people have different strengths in in intheir driving range. So we're making reasonable adjustments toallow people to compete in sport and level the playingfield as much as we do anyway. So all we're doing here is recalibratingsuccess. And which which which is actually one of the
Dominique Dehaeneguest
an important part of sports within Special Olympics isdivisioning, where we put the let's usea very bad words, the weaker athletes competeagainst each other and the stronger athletes compete against each other. So there'sa fair level playing field and there's nothing wrong with that because,you know, if you have to compete to athletes who are not asgood as you, it's no fun for anyone.So we divide the athletes, I would say, in, intocategories, so everyone would have a chance toreach for the best, But then within the category, they can still competewith someone who's better or or or just not better than thanthem. So it makes the competition more tight, whichwhich is good for everyone. In my in my young adulthood, in my
Joanne Lockwoodhost
twenties, I used to play a lot of squash. One of the people in thecompany I was working for was ranked 100 in thecountry, and there was also somebody in a different department who was ranked20 in the country. And I never playedthe person who's ranked a 100, but I did ask them one day. I said,do you ever play this other person in the rank 20? I said, but there'sno point. Between a 120, there's so much difference. It would beno fun for either of us. In the same way, there was no point inme playing the person who was ranked a 100, because it just I'd justbe you need to play someone who's very closely aligned to yourcapability to make it fun for both. Yeah. If you if you
Dominique Dehaeneguest
always win, it's not fun in the end anymore because there's no competition.If you always lose, it's not fun anymore because you don't get any better,but if you're good and then all of a suddenyou meet the person or the team that is better than you,that's when you learn and you make progress. Andmaybe if the person who was ranked 100 would play the personwho was ranked 90 and then 80 and then 70, maybesomeday he will reach the person ranked 20thposition, and if he doesn't, at least he will have tried, so there'snothing wrong with trying. No. So do you have a sport?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
What do you play in? I'm a runner, but I always
Dominique Dehaeneguest
say I have more, you know, perseverance thantalent. So, I run a lot. I like running, but I, you know,I'm I'm not a winner. I'm just having fun running. And,yeah, I do. You do it for the adrenaline, the buzz, the the brain
Joanne Lockwoodhost
chemicals, and the and the feeling of Exactly. Clearing yourhead and having a Yeah. Good workout. And having some new
Dominique Dehaeneguest
thoughts as well when when you are running long enough. It's, Yeah,exactly. I enjoyed that. I've had my difficulties myself insports life. I was too fanatic at a certain time, so Igot anorexic as well and, you know,that's another one of my struggles, but I'm good now, you know, I will alwaysbe anorexic, but it's, let's say under control and Ienjoy running it, just enjoy running and, you know, you have gooddays, you have bad days, but whereas before the bad days wouldfreak me out, but just, yeah, it's okay. Next time will bebetter again. So, just enjoying. And I thinkthat's something, not only in running, we have to try in everyday life as well.Just enjoying, making the best out of it, because we're only here at the bestsome 80, 90 years. So let's make the best of of these years andenjoy those days with with the people who are closest to us.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
You you dropped in the conversation there aboutyour anorexia. We just got to the end of this podcast,really, and I'm I'm now thinking I wish we dived into that a bit more.Maybe maybe you'll come back one day, and we can talk about youranorexia because it's something I've never I've never really spoken to somebody about. Ihave the opposite problem. I find it very difficult to stop eating.I yo yoed my weight up and downby 100 of kilos, plus and minus, over my life.So, yeah, if you were willing to come back one day, we can if youwant to talk about that. One of the things of being open
Dominique Dehaeneguest
about our son, but also about this aspect of my life iswe just think if it can help anyone,yeah, that's a good thing. It's nothing to be ashamed of.If other people recognize themselves in some thingsand they say, oh, you, you know, you handle it with this in thatparticular way and maybe we should try the same or,just knowing we're not alone with this challenge, whatever itmay be. Just talking about it and be open about it. If it can helpanyone, gladly, yes. Let's make an appointment for her next time.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Mhmm. I mean, you've been and I hate the wordbrave is overused. Yeah. But you've shared the story of your sonand your passion and how he has inspired you, I guess, in yourcurrent role with the Olympics, Special Olympics. I I've taken so much away today. It'sbeen really, really powerful, and I just wanna thank you for being open andand and sharing. It's been really, really, really powerful, as I said. No. Thank you.
Dominique Dehaeneguest
Thank you so much. No. Thank you. Thank you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
As we bring this conversation to a close, I want toexpress my deepest gratitude to you, our listener, forlending your ear and heart to the cause ofinclusion. Today's discussion struck a chord.Consider subscribing to Inclusion Bites and become partof our ever growing community, driving real change.Share this journey with friends, family, and colleagues. Let's amplifythe voices that matter. Got thoughts,stories, or a vision to share? I'm all ears.Reach out to jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.uk.And let's make your voice heard. Until next time. This
Joanne Lockwoodhost
is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to returnwith more enriching narratives that challenge, inspire,and unite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world,one episode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, host Joanne Lockwood engages in a compelling conversation with Dominique Dehaene as they explore the profound impact of sports on social inclusion, particularly for individuals with Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities (IDD). The episode delves into various facets of inclusion within corporate settings and society, examining how sports can serve as a powerful catalyst for change. Joanne and Dominique discuss the role of positive mindsets in overcoming perceived employment challenges and highlight how inclusive sports initiatives can transform lives by fostering confidence, social skills, and professional development. Dominique Dehaene, the national director of Special Olympics Belgium, brings a wealth of experience and personal insight to the discussion. As a father of a son with autism, Dominique's journey has been deeply intertwined with advocating for and fostering inclusive environments. His work with the Special Olympics underscores his commitment to highlighting the abilities of individuals with IDD rather than their limitations. He shares touching personal stories, including his son's experiences with social anxiety and professional aspirations, providing a heartfelt perspective on the broader conversation about inclusion and societal norms. His unique blend of professional expertise and personal dedication makes him a compelling advocate for the inclusion revolution. Throughout the episode, Joanne and Dominique touch on pivotal themes such as the integration of individuals with IDD into the workforce, the importance of celebrating present accomplishments, and the transformative effect of sports on mental and physical well-being. They explore the concept of "play unified" and how mixed-ability sports can help reshape perceptions and create more accepting communities. The episode also addresses the broader implications of setting realistic expectations and celebrating achievements without succumbing to the pressures of relentless ambition. Dominique and Joanne conclude with an emphasis on the need for practical solutions and a supportive network to ensure individuals with IDD can thrive in all aspects of life. They call for a collective effort to foster empathy, authenticity, and inclusive mindsets from an early age. A key takeaway from this episode is the transformative power of sports in championing inclusion and empowering individuals with IDD. Listeners will find inspiration in the personal stories shared and gain practical insights into the role of inclusive activities in fostering a sense of belonging and equality. Tune in to explore how embracing diversity through sports can create profound societal change, and join the conversation about building a more inclusive world.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Inclusion Bites, SEE Change Happen Ltd or Joanne Lockwood. This episode is shared for general interest and discussion; we accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any statements made.
