Transforming Teams with Emotional and Self Awareness
Bhavesh Naik explores the pivotal role of self-awareness, authentic human connection, and conscious leadership in building resilient, high-performing organisations that truly harness humanity for enduring success.
Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuaryfor bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart ofinclusion, belonging and societal transformation.Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyonenot only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone.Join me as we uncover the unseen, challengethe status quo and share stories that resonatedeep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you'resipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let'sconnect, reflect and inspire action together.Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach outto jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukto share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.And today is episode 164 with thetitle Harnessing Humanity for Success.I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome BhaveshNaik. Bhavesh is a business performance and longevityexpert who helps leaders build thriving, resilient
Joanne Lockwoodhost
organisations by embracing the humanness of their people.And when I asked Bhavesh to describe his superpower, he said itis that he brings a deeply realised sense of selfawareness, leadership and organisational success. Hello, Bhavesh.Welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Joanne, for having me.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Glad to see you. That's a pleasure. So you're based Washington, is it? If Iremember rightly, I'm Outside of Washington D.C. about 10miles north, northwest, so I'm in Montgomerycounty for those who might be familiar with the areahere. Fantastic. Outside, is it like out there
Joanne Lockwoodhost
at the moment? So we're in February, aren't we? Is it cold?You get icy breezes. It gets cold, yes. Right now today
Bhavesh Naikguest
is probably 20 degrees Fahrenheit and I don'tknow what that translates into. Incentigrade, that is definitely below zero, but it might belike 5, 10 degrees below zero. And that, that's pretty, pretty normal for us,you know, this time of the year. So it's, you know. Right. Winter is aboutto be over, hopefully. But it's cold, luckily. We used to havesome storms like really bad snowstorms 5 years, 10 years ago,but we haven't had those for a while. So that's some good news. And Idon't know if that's good news or bad news because I know. So it's just
Joanne Lockwoodhost
cold. There's no strong winds and pouring rain and snow. It's justcold. That's true. Yeah, yeah, it's just cold. Bit like going skiing. It's justcold. It's not. It's nice sun, but cold. Exactly,
Bhavesh Naikguest
exactly, yeah, Cold, yeah. As we're saying, when I read out the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
introduction just now, you believe in self awareness and I'm a greatbeliever in emotional intelligence and being self. Aware. Sohow does that manifest itself for you in high performingworkplaces or what got you into the work you're doingnow? Yeah, so self awareness and I, if I can go back a
Bhavesh Naikguest
little bit. So self awareness to me is, first of all,it's just terminology, views, it's not even a belief to me.It is an experience of being in a certain way,if that makes sense. So self awareness. So ifsomeone googled self awareness, right, There will be adefinition that Google spits out which would be some version of, okay, being aware ofyour strengths and weaknesses. Now that's a very intellectualised version of that. I don't knowwhere that comes from, but when I talk about self awareness, selfawareness to me is more of the classic definition or more of a common sense,the literal definition of self awareness, which is self awareawareness of the self. So self is here, this person righthere speaking to you and being aware of this personand all his surroundings, right? So. And I like to do this,a bit of an experiment and I want to do this with you if you'regame. Joanne, can we do that a little bit? Yeah, yeah, let's go for it.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. So just to kind of prove a point, I like to show rather than
Bhavesh Naikguest
tell because you can use a lot of words, but when you so andour listeners can follow along with us, here I am talking toyou. This is my perspective, this person right here, right?And I have my internal experience, right? My thoughts and feelings andall of those things. And then I have my senses, right? So I'm interactingwith the outside. So there's sounds and you know, sights andyou know, pictures and all the other senses. Like we have five senses.So there's this person talking to you and then there is you.So there is your perspective. You're talking from there or youseeing out from that side right now for bothof us there's also, if you know, we have this ability ashumans to be able to see ourselves doingwhatever it is that we're doing so we can bring an awarenessto this person. It's almost like you're coming out of the body and looking atourselves, but not looking at ourselves, just feeling ourselves. So
Joanne Lockwoodhost
like playing a video game where you're controlling your first person shooter, you'recontrolling your character on the screen from above rather than being through theeyes. You're exactly an aerial view. Yeah. Now experience.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Do you feel that a little bit? Yeah, sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Soit's in this moment, right here, right now. So we'rehaving this conversation, right? And I'm speaking to you, and yetthere is a faculty here that allows me toobserve me speaking to you, having this interaction withyou. Yeah, I can snap my mind into that. Yeah. It's not default.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, I can. It's not default. Yes. Yeah, but you can get
Bhavesh Naikguest
into that. And did you get into it? I can see myself in the corner
Joanne Lockwoodhost
of the room over there and see me at the desk. I can do that.Yeah. Okay. Right. And you're using the intellect a little
Bhavesh Naikguest
bit and it's even easier than that or it's even simpler than that. Butwe can't do it because. Because we've been trained not to do it.The children are very much like that, right. When they are toddlers, theyare leaving that state and then our intellect pulls us out of it.So that is the self awareness that I'm speaking of. And when
Bhavesh Naikguest
I talk about self awareness, the realised sense of selfawareness, and that's a key word, right. It's not just intellectualised sense ofself awareness, it's just being here and experiencing it here.And I'm here most of the time just observingwhatever this person is doing right now. I go in and out of it,but I'm probably there 60, 70% of the time when I'm awake. Andthat's a wonderful way of being because we can talk about that if you want,but that's. So that is an importantthing for me to talk about because thatis an agent through which in my work, Ithink transformation can happen within organisation, within teams,within ourselves. I'm just trying to create a metaphor for my own, my own thinking.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So what we're really doing is by stepping back andobserving ourselves, we're taking a additional level ofresponsibility for the actions you're taking because you're observing thoseactions in real time, not just being in the action.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Exactly. Right, Right. Yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes we talk about this giftgap between an action and reaction. So somethinghappens and we react to it. Right.So that gap between something happening and we reacting, that gap,you can call that self awareness. Right. So, yeah, exactly whatyou're saying. I'm. I'm kind of saying the same thing in a different, slightly differentway. And that is a very powerful way of being.And there are other connotations of that. You know, for example, that's a very happyplace. That's where happiness is. Because this is why children are so happy mostof the time. Right? Okay. Yeah, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I think I'm more aware of that modality of thinking. WhenI'm planning or imaginingwhat I'm doing tomorrow, or if I'm trying tosequence a project or an outcome, I'll bethinking of me as an avatar computer game navigating theworld. And I'm saying, okay, so I'm going to get on the train. I'll seemyself getting on the train and I'll be interacting with people. I'll be having conversations,I suppose, more in the future tense. I'm planning my life and mynext. What I'm doing through that remote controlavatar, if you like. Sure, sure. Probably less so in the moment.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Okay, yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, yeah. Anddoing it in the moment is. It takes a little bit ofpractise, but if you come to it again and again and again,you may feel a certain sense of, like, relaxation. So another wayof looking at this is being in the zone, being in the flow. Sowhen people who play sports, when they are.They get into the zone, and when they're into the zone, they're notprocessing, they're not strategizing, they're not planning, they're not thinking,they're just doing what they need to do. Now, there is an aspect of skill.You know, they've developed certain skills, right. But they'renot thinking about, okay, you know, if. If I'm. If I'm shootinga basketball, right, they're not thinking, they're not strategizing,they're just doing it. Right. So. So that makes them. Because if Iam strategizing in that moment, if I am practising,right, then I'm not as effective as I would be if I wasjust being in the moment. And so then if you're going
Joanne Lockwoodhost
into automatic mode, it's. Yeah. When you. When youdevelop a new skill, from my understanding, is that you would. First of all, you'dbe very conscious of what you were trying to do. Right. And then you endup. You then end up with a dip in performance. All right? And then youbreak through that and then you become better because it becomes embedded in your. Inyour subconscious. It becomes. Sure.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Absolutely, yeah. Bit like driving a car. How often do you come home
Joanne Lockwoodhost
from work and you don't realise how you got home? You think, oh, did IDid I, did I stop at that red light? Did I see that red light?Well, you must have done because you're not conscious about that journey.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Exactly, exactly, exactly. And that's an excellentexample, driving, because that's a skill that most of us have really mastered.So once you master a skill, then you go into a zone. Sometimes it'scalled the state of being in a flow. Right.Where the activity is happening and your mind isengaged. Because your mind is engaged, this person here can just kind ofstep back and do other things. Now we tend to do a lot ofthinking because we are thinking people and we have been trained to think allthe time. But if you can let that thinking quiet down a little bit,you can just be, just be present, you can just be in thatmoment. Right, so like it's rightthis, right this moment. Right, so if I, if I asked you this question, Joanne,are you aware right now? No. Right, but. So when you say rightnow. No. Right, but there was a pause. I said, are you aware?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I had to test, I had to test myself and evaluate in my head whetherI was or wasn't and came to the conclusion, no, I'm in the moment rightnow because I'm focused on the conversation. Yeah.What we're going to talk about next, the, the flow of the podcast. I'mmore in active thinking about what we're doing moderather than observing, if you like. Let me, let me ask you a different
Bhavesh Naikguest
way. Are you conscious right now? Because you weren't whenyou were sleeping at night. I'm awake. I'm conscious. I've, I've,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I've got decision making power. Yeah. Right, so then if I
Bhavesh Naikguest
ask you again this question. Pause for a bit. Are you conscious?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, I've conscious, yeah. Okay, so you went to some place before answering
Bhavesh Naikguest
that question. Are you conscious? You went to that place calledconsciousness. That's an experiential thing. It's not intellectual. So there'sa gap there that you went to and then you said,yes, I'm conscious. That is the awareness. So it'sa different name for it. Awareness of consciousness. That's the consciousness.And, and it's beyond. The reason why I'm kind of getting a little bitdown into this is because this is key.It is so central to everything that I talk about in my workwith organisations and people and teams and things like that. Sothis is the agent, it's beyond intellect, it's outside ofintellect and processing. Okay, so we've got the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
multi state of mindsets. We've got, as you say, we've got the,the self aware looking down on you,able to influence the world around and direct you in differentdirections. You've got the heavily engaged in autonomous mode wherewe're just doing what we do. Right. How do we,how can we use those different states to our advantage then? Right.
Bhavesh Naikguest
It depends on which situation we're talking about. Right.So for example, there's an aspect of this called the situational awareness,which is if I'm just walking down the street, just kind of being aware ofmy surroundings, that's one kind of awareness. Right. So itgives me safety, it allows me to feel, you know,out and, you know, be aware of things that may be not quite rightaround me. And then I would make a notice of that and then I wouldact appropriately. Maybe I change my direction, go someplace else, orif it happens to be a friend who is approaching me, then I would walkup to that person and say hello, things like that. So, so that's oneexample. But then depending on different situations,this can become a handy tool. So like for when we talked aboutsports, being in a meeting, being in a sales call, beingin negotiations, being talking toa manager, talking to an employee, having a teammeeting, having workshops, what we're having right now for this conversation rightnow, I think that conversations like this become morepowerful when we play from this. Becausewhat needs to come out, what needs to happen in this moment, theright words. And we've been in that zone. I'm sure you've been in that zonebecause you do this a lot, right. Where. Right. Questions just comeout of the moment and say, aha, let me ask him this.Right. So. And that's a very effective way ofjust being. So let me just try and explain the metaphor that's going around in
Joanne Lockwoodhost
my head. So we have, I think you usedthe word agents earlier. So we've got. And maybeeven I'll bring another word in. Sensors. Yeah, we've got these agentsand sensors. You know, you talked about your threat analysissensor and you've, you've got some bit of your brain that's checking onthat sensor. Occasionally we've got another one that's checking in on the conversationsensor ahead of us. We're having a communication with somebody or we've got our,our hunger sense or sense of direction. So we've got, our brain is going aroundall these different inputs to ourselves andgenerally we're not aware of them. But what you're saying is we're trying to becomemore aware. Exactly. Of these specific interactions we'rehaving with the world and not just treating them as in the flow,we're being aware rather than just being in the flow. Yes,
Bhavesh Naikguest
yeah, yeah, right. There is this term calledneuro linguistic programming. I'm sure you've heard that term, right? Neuro linguistic nlp.Yeah, I have a bit of a take on that, right? Aninterpretation of that. I like that term. And it means certain things tocertain people, right? There are practitioners of nlp, but if you break downthat term, neuro linguistic programming, right? Soneuro is neural network, right? We are receiving bits and bytesof information right into this, into this instrument, right? Andwe happen to have five senses, right? So from the externalsources and then the linguistics. So we call it.The linguistic part is the labels. So basically language is
Bhavesh Naikguest
series of labels. So we have thoughts, conceptualization andwe have labels and ideas and those are connectedtogether, right? Words, sentences, paragraphs.So with those we attach meaning to what's happening. So allthese inputs coming in, because the input coming in is just bits and bytes ofinformation. We're using computer terminology, right? So by theway, BFM aside, computer was actually madeafter people looked at the human body. So computeris the replica or a copy of what humans cando, right? But now we live in computers,you know, we live in this age where we're so surrounded by them thatwe look at them as a way to look at ourselves.So anyway, bits and bytes of information, linguistic, right?So language, so that gives it meaning. So if there is a loudsound coming from that corner over there right now, all of a sudden Iwould basically look at that because there is some circuitry herethat attached a meaning to that, right?That there's a thread there. And I looked up, right? So that isthe linguistic portion of that. And programming is. I react likethat in that fraction of a second because I'm programmed to do it.So that's the neuro linguistic programming. So that's one way of looking at it. Ihappen to. So this self awareness, I happento see that self awareness in seven dimensions.We talked about in the introduction. We talked about being human rightnow. So one question that often comes up is what does it mean to behuman? And we have basically saidfor ages that being human means being rational.This is how we are different from the animals. We are rational people.Animals don't have that rational capacity.And that's true. Chimpanzees and some of the other thingsthat other animals, they do. There issome truth to that. But what I Like to say is that, and Ithink this has been talked about before whereit's the awareness, the fact that we are aware of thisperson, me being me, us being able to look at ourselvesas a third party. Our language is likethat, you know, some there's a word called I and there is called word calledme. I is me, the subjective person, me. Thishappened to me as like a third party. So that's like anobject in a way, right? So what makes us human actuallyis our self awareness as far as we know.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yes, cause and effect. Seeing your reflection,knowing it's you, how you interact in the world, that's kind of all that stuffthat separates us from beings that aren't self aware. Yeah,
Bhavesh Naikguest
exactly. And that's what allows us to even teach children something.I don't know if you, in England you say this rhyme,head and shoulder, knees and toes, right? So a child isgrowing up and we kind of say well this Right, exactly. So if thechild wasn't self awareness self aware, we wouldn't be able to teachthem this. Right? Because we're bringing their awareness to themselves. We're teachingthem self awareness. They were all very self aware but we kind of bringingthe linguistic and rational aspect to that. So being human, selfawareness is what makes us human. And I look at that awarenessmanifesting in seven different ways.So and another important thing, this is also how we are different fromAI or artificial intelligence or general AGI.Artificial general intelligence. So andthis is important to kind of understand. I watch a lot of YouTubevideos by very smart people, but they don't talk about this. They're sayingthat, okay, you know, computers are becoming very smart and we are programming, redoingthis data modelling and you know, we are collecting all of this information andretraining our models to think.They're not really thinking, they're just processing data. Right. Themeaning is given by us because we are the ones with the self awareness. SoChatGPT is gonna put some things together, right? But it doesn't understandthe meaning of it. It's the reader who's reading it who's gonna bringmeaning to it. Right? And that's the definition of being a human.So there's some hope for us. The machines are really not gonna take over. Theycould, but they're programmed. Only if they're programmed to do it. Isn't the difference
Joanne Lockwoodhost
really? Even though quantum computing, all these computingadvances we, we've had over the last 100 years, whatever it may be,the difference really is our brain is Just a better computer at certaintasks. Yeah, AI, quantumcomputing, whatever. We want to talk about that. The machine computersare really good at ones and zeros and sequencingand those sort of things. What they're not trained on is you saysentience. Our brain is just a more evolvedbit of flesh that enables us to be specialists in that, in that area. Whichis why we know, yeah, we're not all good at mathematics in our head. Buta computer is so different things. So could AImachine based computers eventually developmatrices like our brains? What's to stop them?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah, that's a good question. So if I go back a little bit. So haveyou ever had dealt with. There is a problem that you're trying to work outin your head, right. And you can't figure it out and youwent for a walk and you engaged doing something else or you were justwalking or doing something else and all of a sudden the solution drops in yourhead. Has that ever happened? Oh, it happens all the time.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I trust my brain to do that. Sometimes I will deliberately.If I can't find something, I need to solve something. I know if Iput it on a shelf in my head, I'll wake up one day or somethingwill happen. I go, ah, got it, there it is. And I don't sweat it.So I know I trust my brain to solve that equation at some point. IfI leave it on the, on the back burner. Yeah.
Bhavesh Naikguest
So I want to go back and preface something. Everythingthat I propose is for examination. So no belief system here,Right. So I would highly encourage people toknow, listeners to take what I'm sayingfor checking. Don't, don't buy what I'm saying as a beliefsystem or a dogma. Right. This guy's saying it, so it must be true.Don't do that. So with that I would say that the brain.Right. So then this goes into some pretty fundamental existentialquestions. Right. If the brain is wiredthat way to get these answers, whodid it? Right. This is a very fundamental question and Right. Wedon't have the answer to that. I'm an evolutionist,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
so I guess as an evolutionist, a Darwinist, I would sayit evolved in that way.
Bhavesh Naikguest
So that is a creationist theory.Creationist theory is, and I'm not opposingthe theory within certain contexts. That is a, that, that, that istrue. And at the same time you alwaysask this question, the, the origin question, which is, okay, if there was anevolution, where did it begin? At someone's cell. It'sBig bang, of course. So Then you say, well, okay, what was there before theBig Bang? Well, there was nothing before the Big Bang. So if there was nothingbefore the Big Bang, how did everything come fromnothing? How does that make sense? How can everything come from nothing?So those are the questions that we go into, right? Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And if there is a higher being, what came before that?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Exactly right. The whole infinity is such a almost
Joanne Lockwoodhost
impossible concept for humans to imagine or rationalise becausewe want there to be a bound on something. And infinity doesn't give us theability to process what's beyond because there is no beyond.
Bhavesh Naikguest
That's true. If time is true, time is infinite and space is infinite,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
then everything is possible. Yeah. Yes.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Now, what I would say is that infinity andno infinity, or the opposite of infinity, whatever that may be,finite. Those are finite, right.Those are concepts of the mind. Right. In theoriginal word for zero was. Was actually shunya,which was in Indian philosophy, it was considered bothinfinity and zero in one,if that makes any sense. So. And I don't know if you're going off trackhere, so. But we're on the. On the topic, so let's kind offollow this, right? There's a song that I used to sing to my kid, youknow, Three blue pigeons sitting on a wall, right. I don't know if you heardthat. Three blue pigeons sitting on a wall. And then one fleas flows up, oneflies away. How many are left? Two blue pigeons sitting on awall. That flies away. Right? One is therethat flies away. How many are left? No blue pigeons, I guess. Noblue pigeons sitting on a wall. Right. So there's zero blue pigeonssitting on a wall. But what is left when you take away thepigeons with the idea of a pigeon? Just awall, everything is left, everything is left. So that's infinity, right?Everything is infinity and zero is. Sowhen we talk about these concepts, they are verycontextual.So something that is kind of very difficult towrap our heads around for a lot of us, if you haven't really spent timedoing this kind of thinking, is this idea thatthe world goes away when you go to sleep. Right. Where did the world gowhen we enter sleep? So our belief system is that it carries on. We
Joanne Lockwoodhost
just weren't aware of it. That's my belief system. So there's no guarantee that it
Bhavesh Naikguest
does, though. And thank you for that. Having that little.That doubt. Right? So the world comes into existence whenthis person wakes up. That person wakes up for that person.Right? So the idea there is.That there is. I'm not proposing Another model, Although I think there issomething in my mind there's another model outside ofthe linear thinking on creationist Darwin. All of thosethings are good. They're wonderful things. Right. And so the other thing thathappens is that when we talk about these kinds of things, people we don't have,we haven't thought about this much. So what we do is we automatically go intothe opposite. If it's not a creationist Darwinisttheory or if it's. If I don't believe in Darwin's theory of evolution, then Imust believe in seven day creation theory. And wehave a very strong reaction to that. Right. Or some other aspect.Or I have to be spiritual. If I, I think it's more nuanced
Joanne Lockwoodhost
than having, having to believe in a seven day creation theory. I think there's. Yeah,it can be intelligent design. There can be other thingsthat create. Doesn't have to be a, it doesn't have to be a God definitionfigure. It could be a higher intelligence or a.Yeah. A matrix model, if you like, where there'sa. Could be. That's a wonderful model. Simulations and Exactly. Other things.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Computer game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so the reasonwhy I kind of get into this is because the awareness,right. So when we have that aha moment. So theword gnosis, G N O S I s and the word knowledge comes fromthe word G N O S I s gnosis and the original meaning of theword is sharing insight into the nature of things.So you know, we have all this conditioning that we have and we have anaha moment. And once we have an aha moment about that, whatever that is,then our mind doesn't go back to the way it was before and we haveexpanded our understanding. Right? Sothen that's one way to define knowledge. Soknowledge can be collection of data, right? Rewiring forour brain the physicality of brain collection of data.But learning and knowledge can also be just blowing upof our existing body of knowledge and having aninsight. And that's where our mind opens up. Sothis is how we can go beyond our filtering and biases and things like that.And this is the real growth, right? Because youknow, growth doesn't happen by just collection of data from different people, differentopinion, different perspectives. Right. It happens when we have ourown insight into things and we say aha. Nowthat doesn't mean that it's an original thought. It doesn't mean that no one elsehas taught that thought before. But to me, in that moment, that's my original thought.And this is where the growth is, right? This is where what I calltrue learning is. And to me this is important because this ishow transformation in people happens. If I want to work with someone and I wantto help them get better in some way, shape or form, and if they arewilling, then this is the faculty that helps us get thereor it helps us help that person get there. So when you're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
working with teams in a workplace, is this aone to one or is this a group session? BecauseI would imagine that everyone'sinterpretation of what you've been saying, they'll have theirown metaphor, their own sense of what that means.
Bhavesh Naikguest
And that's wonderful. How do we align people and try and get some
Joanne Lockwoodhost
commonality of. That's a great point of purpose. Yeah.
Bhavesh Naikguest
So we say, so diversity, right? We talk about.Your podcast talks about inclusion and diversity, right? And equity. Sothere's two contradictory ideas there, right?There's diversity, but then we have to come together and work. Sowe have to find some common ground, which is what you're asking, right? So what'sthat common ground? Well, the common ground is very easy with riskfactor is what? We are all humans, you're all human beings, right? So that's ourcommon ground. And then the question comes, well, how do you define a human being?And that's all that conversation that we have, right? We just, we just hadthus far. So to answer your question to me, whenyou, a team, an organisation, whether you are five people, two peopleteam, or you 100 people or thousand people, or a hundred thousand people or theentire civilization, right? The foundation isto me so. Well, first of all, we are all human beings. So I thinkwe all agree on that. To me, I try toaccess this awareness, which is a common ground. To me, that's a common ground.So that can be a dogma, that cannot be something that. I'm not expectingJoanne to understand that or accept that. But we explore that.But we start with this idea that we're both human beings.So that's the commonality. Now within that thereis the diversity. So the diversity. The funny thing is that there are 7 billionpeople on this planet. Not two of us even look alike,right? So we are truly, each one ofus is a truly unique individual. Now add to that our psychologicalconditioning, our upbringing, our belief systems, our talent.So even if you have two twin brothers or sisters, you knowyou're going to have differences, right?So they're two entirely different people. So the,the challenge is to find the Common ground. Andto me that is awareness. And we can say, okay, fine, it's human beings, sowe all human beings, and then we need to at the same time celebratethe, the uniqueness that we bring to the table. Soawareness. And then what comes out of that awareness isthe celebration. That's how I look at it, right? So awareness is the ground, itdoesn't change. That is the oneness that we all share, we allare aware. So there's consciousness there, there's consciousness here, that's what we share.But the manifestation of that, the expression of that awareness isso entirely unique to each individual. And this is why I believe that
Bhavesh Naikguest
perspective is our superpower. Our self awareness and pursuit to the way we expressand way we play out in this planet is oursuperpower. So now whenwe bring it to the teams, I think the basic element is of course,the person, that's the node. So if you were looking at Eiffel Tower, we talkabout organisational structures, right, all the time, right? So if you're looking at it asa static structure, a bridge or an Eiffel Tower, you're going tohave the nodes, right? And then between those nodes there is these big beams,like iron things, right, that they connect them. Sothose are the relationships. So if an organisational structureis a structure like that, then you're going to have people and the relationship betweenthose people. So how we talk to each other, how we converse with each other,how we work with each other.So the strength of that relationship is the strength of the organisation. So thestrength of the people in organisation is the.Is how strong, how functional, how performant you are,how productive that organisation could be. That's.It's kind of an abstract thing, but, you know, I think, I don't know ifthat answers the question, but. So that's where it comes together,relationships, basically. Yeah, I grasp the concept. You know, we think about.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
You talk about self awareness and, you know, looking at yourself from above and youcan then look at the impact you're having. You know, if you can see what'sgoing on around you, you see all the actors and all the people taking part,you can perceive the impact you're having, positive or negative. You canstart to address your biases, you can start to address. Exactly. You can start tocontextualise the environment you're in. Whereas if you're just looking in the moment,you're blinkered, you're very shut down, exactly in a reactive mode,then you're going to be less, as you say, self aware. Of what's going onaround you. Right, exactly. It's how do you move from theawareness to action? Do you make thatleap? First leap is stepping out of yourself. The next leap isbeing aware and then the next leap is how to re. Engagecontrol. Yes. And how does one do that?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah, that's going to be contextual. So for example, soif you look at the context, there is, okay, what is it we're trying toachieve? So there is a vision first. Right.And why do we want to achieve that? So there's a why. So there's apurpose, there's a vision and there's purpose. Right. And once we havethose in mind, then we can say, well, how do we get there? Right, thisis where we want to go, this is why we want to get there. Thisis my why is to why I want to get there. And then we say,well, what are some of the things that I need to do to get there?What are some of the actions that I need to take? What, how do weexecute to get there? And that's where our steps and
Joanne Lockwoodhost
steps here, sort of how do we get to five, how do we get tosix, how do we get to 10? Exactly. Yeah. Looking at thebig picture rather than the ground in front of us. Yeah. And
Bhavesh Naikguest
the big picture could be. So it depends on how big an organisation is. Forexample, let's say you're running a hundred people organisation,you're a business and you have a CEOor a founder and there's 100 people working within their organisation and they havethe reporting structure. So then we had to look atthat. So how does awareness come about? Or how doesit become an agent to doing abc X, Y, Z. So the first questionis, do they even want to be aware or not? It's a very basic question.So if now I work with, always work with, start with theleadership out and I don't like to say top down, but that'sanother way of saying it. I like to look at this one person. Evenif there is a multiple people, team, executive team, there's one personwho is in a leadership position, who is the ripple effect, who's the centre ofthis ripple effect? Right, that person. And I work with that person in executivecoaching. So that's one of the ways that I start and that's actually almost alwaysthe way. But why would you want to do that? If the why isn't thereif everything is working fine, if the, if. If the revenues are where they wantit to be, where, if, if they're the gross margins are where they want itto be. If their people are productive and happy and wonderful, they're showing up everyday, they don't complain, then you don't need to talk about any of this, right?Just keep doing what you're doing. But what if your revenuesaren't where they need to be? Right? Your productivity is where you need tobe, right? Your people are. It's like a rolling door, right? They're notstaying, there's no retention, there's on and on and on, right? There'slots of problems that organisation can. And this is a healthy organisation, every organisationhas problems. So if you want to fix that problem,right, that's when we begin to talk about, well, what are some of the waysthat we can. We can do this? Now, what happens typicallyis that most people will go to. I call it the businessphilosophy. The business philosophy that has been handed down generation togeneration to generation. And this business philosophy is where they go to.They don't find their answers there. And we are actually sort ofin this loop right now. I call it the dependency epidemic.Our organisations are deeply dysfunctional today.Our engagement. Gallup has done studies where they say that most people are.Only 33% of the people in organisation are engagedto their work, right? The other 60. So if you have six peopleteam, only two people are engaged, the other four are doingone is actually destroying the work of the others. And I think the remaining threeare just there doing the minimum required. And if you manage a team of six
Bhavesh Naikguest
people, you'll kind of get this. And this is normally how you play, right?So the question is,why? So am I running a functional organisation or am I running adysfunctional organisation? If you're running a dysfunctional organisation, are the popular pressmanagement giving you those answers? If you are getting your answers there, thenperfectly fine, keep doing it. If not, thenyou need to kind of open up the mind and say, well, let methink about something else. And this is where someone like Bhavesh comes in and say,well, hey, look at it this way, right? That's whenthey will be open to listening to someone like me. Because my propositionis that we are still using the management practises andphilosophies that were developed in the industrial age, which was about 250 years ago,codified in that time, scientific management theories. Butwe really saw, we haven't really evolved the way wemanage people, the way we build organisation, the way we lead people at all.We put man on the moon. You know, this used to Be a giantsupercomputer just 50 years ago, right? But we hold that in the palm of ourhands. But we have done absolutely no.Well, there's some. So industrial agerevolution that was an attempt on our part tosay, okay, let's make our peopleproductive, super productive. And we said, well, how do we do this?And there have been studies done. It's a guy called Frederick Taylor, he comes alongand he says, well, he was a machinist and we were fascinated by machines. Sohe saw the businesses as machines and people asmachine parts. So the entire philosophy of managingpeople was looked on as if people are machines.And this is a flaw. We still look at it, our people asmachines. This is why we love AI even more. I've been talking aboutthis for 20 years. This message is even more relevanttoday because we love AI for this reason. Because we don't know how to managepeople. We don't know how to deal with people. We don't know how to dealwith differences. We don't know how to deal with people whohave passion, who have talent, who have their opinions,right, who have wisdom, who have aspirations, who have goals in life.We don't like that, we don't know what to do with it.So the existing management philosophies don't give us toolsto it. And this is not their fault, this is not the fault of theleader. So the result is that I call itdependency epidemic. We have created deeplydependent organisations. So if the leader goes away for three months or sixmonths, the organisation begins to fall apart.So just think about a business, right? If someone is running, I'm sure you workwith business people, right? Where you have somebody's running a 200 people firm,the business owner says, I'm going to take a sabbatical, I'm going to go awayfor six months. When she or he or they come back, the organisationis gone, right? Most of the time, unless they've set up some structures and thingslike that. So thengoing back to your question, how does self awareness comeinto play in this? That's a very important question. So once they'reopen to looking at this, then we can talk abouthow to bring in the human element which is missingin our business. So truly finding all the conversations that we'vehad until to this point, looking at a humanbeing as a human being, not as a machine. When we dothat, we unlock the true potential of our people.We're already paying for it. We salaries are the higheston most people's P and L statements,but we are only getting 33% from that. Soif I learn how to do this. Well, this goes into all of the thingsthat's happening today, you know, remote work and bring them back.Cancelling the DEI initiatives and stuff like. Because we don't know how todeal with human beings as human beings. So did I go ona rant. As you're talking now? I'm thinking,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
if you think about a diverse world we live in,people have vastly different starting points on thejourney you're talking about and you throw into the mix someone who'sneurodivergent. I can imagine there's ahuge challenge in trying to get this alignment. But given thestarting point, and must be a real challenge to you to work with organisations,you may well be able to get a number of people thinking in thisway. But the challenge must be the outliers who really struggle with theconcept. Yes. And the outliers. Actually the
Bhavesh Naikguest
outliers are probably the majority I work with. Not, noteverybody is open to this message. Andthat's true. At least today. It might be different 10 years from now or 20years from now. It'sthe only way that they can be open to it is ifI bring them results. And the results have to bethere, otherwise commitmentwon't be there. Right. Or so for meto sell this quote, unquote, sell this to the organisations,I need to bring the results and sometimes fairly immediate results. And then whenwe're talking, and I'm not saying a week or month or something like that, threemonths, six months, there's some results and then they get a little bitsold and then we can do a long term. Ultimately this is a long termcommitment type of thing. Right. It's a long term, one year, two year, somethinglike that. But it can, it can happen. The
Joanne Lockwoodhost
other thing that's occurring to me as you're talking is we almostneed to be able to step out not just of ourselves, but, butalso ourselves as part of a team or ourselves as part of a business.I'm going to look at how all my team is performing.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Exactly. And how my business is performing. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it's that shifting your focus fromself to team to division to organisationand being self aware of all those layers as well. Absolutely.Challenge. Absolutely. Well, the measurements that we
Bhavesh Naikguest
use, I mean we actually do it, you know, we call it objectification. Right. Objectobjectives of KPR and all those things that bringsan element of awareness.It's a very narrow view of that awareness, but it doesso. But what this requires ismore of a open awareness on the part of the leadership. It startsthere. If they are, if they don't get bought into this, thenit absolutely doesn't work. Right? So it's a transformation that starts from thetop down or inside out. If the person who is the leader,who is in the centre of the organisation and if you look at it aslike a ripple effect, so it has to workfrom the leadership team, they have to commit toit, they have to be, to, to beopen to this idea and then willing to give it a try. So then youknow, in those experiments, you know, in those pilots, you kind of say, well theseare the things that we're going to shoot for, you know, what are you lookingfor? Why are we doing this? And they'll find a three month thing where youcan see tangible results. Now the tangible resultsmay be measurable, but sometimes they're not. Now anything can, can bemeasured, right? But sometimes it's, it's an intuitive feeling. Most leadersare actually intuitive, right? And they'll knowthat, okay, my team is functioning better right now.The problem is when you have a hierarchy where you have a vice president whois reporting to a president and CEO and he needs to prove to theirsuperiors that whatever it is that you're taking on is working andthen they have to prove it to someone. But if you're working, I work withbasically folks who are self contained entitieswhere there is a definitive person who is at thehell, right. And this person is,doesn't have report to anyone except their family, you know, sothey, they are. So that's, that's where I come in. Andthose, that is where my bread and butter is becauseorganisations, it can happen. I work with organisations and within the pockets. Sowithin organisations there is sometimes someone who is in charge of P and Lwithin the large organisation and they have that self contained team.I've done some work with them, but they are always accountable to someone.So. But even in those cases anything can be measured. Productivity can bemeasured, even happiness can be measured. So. But you just have to find out whatthose measurement matrix are. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm with you on most of this. I'm just trying to think about, I'm kindof a, I'm definitely a possibilist to start. Yeah, anything's possible. Andthen I move into implementation andall the risk analysis and resistance and objection handling. So oneoutlier is going to, I'm not saying it woulddisrupt the whole process, but it would make the communication channels betweenteam members and the business more tricky, wouldn't it?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah. Where people aren't wholly bought into this. It really has got to.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
You got to embrace this as a team. Yeah, yeah. Now, so. So
Bhavesh Naikguest
this is where it becomes important to make sure that it's not seen assome kind of like cultism thingy that's come being forced down from the top,right. They have to buy into this. So for that there is a verysimple way. You don't have to talk about any of these things. There are sometimeswhen I would sit down with someone who is, who's a leader and I wouldsay do this and there, there a. There's aprocess that begins with one on one. So if you're a leader, say you have
Bhavesh Naikguest
a hundred people, company, you have five people who are reporting to you, who isthe executive team. All right? And you want to kind of give this a shot.All I would ask you to do is, is have a oneon one conversation with each one of these people and don't talk about any ofthis stuff that we talked about because it made this scare them away, right?But ask them some three or four, very simple question, right?And what. I don't know how much time we have right now, but I wouldask them to take a sheet of paper like that and, and write down atthe top of my job, right, My job here with this organisation,and ask the first question, why? Right?Halfway down that sheet of paper is what? On theback of the sheet you write how and how, right?So if I'm a manager or you're a manager, you would sit down with thisperson and say, well, why is this job important to you?So this becomes part of the management process. It can also become part of therecruitment process. These are powerful questions to ask, right? Why work here? Sothey'll come up with 1, 2, 3 things. What's your vision working here?Right? Fast forward 2, 3, 4, 5 years down theroad. Where do you see yourself in context of working here? And thenon the flip side, how do we get there? So thisprocess, we can do another podcast just on this, but thisprocess brings together everything that we've talked about and it's a simpleenough process. So the idea there is that when theysay why, when they answer the question, why is it, why am I working here?They are basically giving you the reason that that's their engagement,right? Organisations don't have this conversation. Why are you here?We've done incredible volume of dataanalysis and things like that, and we do job performance and stuff like that. Butthey don't ask these basic questions, why this job? Why are you here? And thisquestion needs to be visited again and again and again. Not because, like achallenge or anything like that, but share with me why it's important for youto work here so that I understand you. There are someguidelines. Now, you don't misuse this, right? Butthere is. So it's. You know, we talked about this, right? Thestructure. The structure is relationship between two people.This is how it happens, right? You ask the why question, why you'rehere, and then what's the vision? There needs to be some. Someunderstanding, some empathy. All of these things comeinto play, right? Understanding the other person, not jumping and telling themwhy they need to be there, right? You're listening and you're askingthe question, why are you here? And, and, and they're telling you. You listenand you write it down. You let have them write it down, right? Whatever thecause, you can't argue with their why, right?So, and then they, they tell you what is their vision of being there?And they say, well, I want to be. I want to be making $150,000a year two years down the road. Now, that vision youneed to basically agree on. If someone is saying, well,I'm going to be making $300,000, and you might say, well, this job is notgoing to get you there. It'll get you to maybe $200,000.So it's this kind of a conversation thatneeds to happen between the boss and the. And theemployee to have that bond. And then theidea is that the manager, the supervisor, the leaderbecomes a resource to that person, right? At onelevel. And then. So it's like, I think you mentioned, it'salmost like being a coach, right? You are in a coachingrelationship just as well, as much as you are alsoa leader or manager who's responsible for this person to do what they needto do. But yeah, you become a resource, you become a mentor,you'll become all of those things or some of those things, but that's it.
Bhavesh Naikguest
So the understanding and empathy andreally getting to know someone and what makes them tick and alsobeing very ethical about it, because you can't be talking about 12 all these peopleand you can't play politics based on what someone tells you, because if you dothat, then that breaks the trust, right? And then they won't open up or they'llgive you the wrong answer. They'll give you the answers that you want to hear.Yeah, but, but so my point is that this comes down to nuts andbolts. And I've done presentations on how thislittle process ties into a lot of the things that we talked about. Right. Becausethere is a correlationship. So, you know, there, there'sintricacies of how asking these simple questions actuallytaps into a lot of the things that we talked about and being awarehere. Right. So you bring awareness to. That's always a play.That's always in play. Right. You are. You are being aware ofthe conversation. When you're aware, you will notice thingsin people that you normally would not notice if you weren't aware.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. You'll be able to understand them better. Yeah, I mean, that's a criticalpart. When I'm trying to. I mean, my brain's goingback to things like emotional intelligence. And the whole point of selfawareness and self management, self regulation, is to be more aware of yoursurroundings as well, and the cues you're picking up from people. Be aware of yourbreathing, your biases, whatever it may be. Right, right. And soonce you become aware of self, you become more tuned in and awareof others. So then you could regulate and adjust and bemore person centric, aren't you? That's great point. Yeah,
Bhavesh Naikguest
excellent point. Exactly. So when you. The degree to which we are selfawareness is a degree to which we are able to help others get in touchwith their own self awareness. And there is this connection,this understanding, deep understanding that. That we normally don'tsee in business. Relationships because leadership is sort of social influence
Joanne Lockwoodhost
and being aware of self and how you're interacting with somebody else givesyou, I was gonna say great power, great insight intohaving productive conversations, productive outcomes andpersuasion, whatever it may be, by creating that alignment. Andthat starts with self awareness and aware of others, isn't it? Exactly.Constantly. Course correct. So you're not crashing into each other. Exactly. Yes.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Great. That's a great point. Yeah, I think I get
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it. Good. All right, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So I've been trying to playwith everything you're saying and trying to contextualise it into my metaphors andview of the world. And I think. I think I'm getting what you're saying here.And it's trying to create that alignment and that interfacing with other people,starting with who are we? Right. And then who are you?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah. And how do we want to communicate and how do we become more effective?All right. Yes. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for playing with me on that.So because these are. These are different things that peoplethat, to Talk about in, in a business conversation that most people are,are accustomed to. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
talk to a lot of people about emotional intelligence and to many people it's a,a dark art just talking about it and. Yeah. Evengetting people to be accountable for their, fortheir Persona, it's like. That's right. I'm just me. I don't care, I don't carewhat you think of me. I'm just me. Well, actually if you start caring aboutwhat, what people think of you, it's not, not necessarily to worry about judgement orworry about the negative side, but just aware. Because if you, if you think you'reA and people think you're B. Yeah. Then you need toshift perspectives. Exactly. If no matter howI'm thinking, you believe I'm like this. Okay, hang on a minute.Why is there a disconnect between who I think I am and who you thinkI am? Right. Yeah. And if there's a misalignment there, you have the power ofchange, don't you? Exactly. Yes. Yeah, you do. And I want to throw
Bhavesh Naikguest
out another term. Emotional intelligence is a good term and there'sa very specific definition of what that means. I like the term emotional awarenessbecause it's a very simple term. It's self explanatory.It's awareness of how you're feeling. So one of the awareness. So theseven dimensions of awareness is. One of those seven dimensions isawareness of how I'm feeling in this moment. So that's a verypowerful thing to be. Right. So and emotional intelligenceto me is. It implies, it may not be meant that way, butsometimes it interpreted as using intellect tooverpower the emotion and that's somehow that context. Andthat's not good because that is a suppression of emotion. Suppression ofemotion is not healthy. So I like the term emotionalawareness in the sense that. Okay, what am I feeling this morning in,in this, in this moment. So right now we're having this conversation. So I amin a nice optimistic, happy state right now because Ienjoy having this kinds of conversation. Right. And so that'smy feeling right now. Now I may be sitting down, having a cup of coffeeand I may be tired a little bit. Moment to moment, beingaware of how I'm feeling. That brings us a tremendousamount of power to, to own that feeling, numberone. And then if there's something needs to be done about that, then we cando that. Yeah. So I think I like that differentiation and I see what
Joanne Lockwoodhost
you're saying about. Because I always get worried that if you're.We talk about, you know, the four pillars, if you like, of emotional intelligence.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Yeah. The self awareness and the self regulation. It's almost, as you say,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it's almost trying to override. Right. Your natural flowstate. Exactly. Force yourself into a different zone. Yes. Rather thanjust being hyper aware and in that moment. Yes. Andrealising you're maybe standing in the wrong place. Yeah.I think also if you. If you recognise that humans storea lot of memories with their emotions and how they're feeling, you're going to regressback in time to a place where you were happy. Right.Can. Can change your whole Persona, can't it? Bringing yourself in that. In thatconscious state. Yeah.
Bhavesh Naikguest
One example I'd like to give is, you know, imagine Martin Luther, Dr. Martin LutherKing Jr. Speech. You know, I have a dream. If he was beingemotionally intelligent, he would kind of regulate those emotions andhe'll say, I have a dream. Right. He'll say, I kind of have this dream,but I'm not sure if I'll be able to attain it or not. You know,who knows? Right. That's being emotionally intelligent. Right. But thereis no doubt, there is no hesitation, there is no. That'semotional awareness. Right. So emotions are very powerful and theyhave a purpose. There is a reason for those emotions. And some of these
Bhavesh Naikguest
emotions are wonderful because it brings us together, it allows us todo things that we have never done before. And so one of the things thatwe've done with some conversation we had about viewing people as machine partsis that we don't like people emoting in the workplace. Right.Because we don't know what to do with it. All right, so this is whywe love emotional intelligence so much, because it sometimes it can be usedas a way to tell people, hey, you know, be emotionally intelligent, don't let itall hang out. Right. Oh, and I'm starting to see that term in jobdescriptions. You know, you require emotional intelligence to work here and thenthat can be taken in so many different ways. We are so dysfunctional and weare so toxic that you'll need to be emotionally intelligent to workhere, otherwise you'll fall apart. So. So. But that's mycynical take on. I suppose I would interpret
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it as, you want people to be accountable. Yes, that's true. For theirimpact, accountable for their intent that goes bad. Imean, that's how I would. That's true. I wake up believing I'm doing agood job. I believe I'm a good person, but someone else has a Differentbelief. So the impact I've had has been negative. I just have to be accountablefor that. Either I reflect and go, actually, you'reright. Or yeah, I reflect and go. Now I'm, I'm, I'mcomfortable with what I did and I'll stand by that. So I think some ofit is just having a, having a. You go back towhat, the language you use. Self awareness, self reflection and just thatappreciation of self, whether that's the helicopter view. Right.How do I come across? Am I a dick or am I a nice person?
Bhavesh Naikguest
Right. I want to be a nice person. Right. If I'm coming as a dick.Yeah. I got the power to change, haven't I? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So assoon as you're aware, you have the power. Exactly. Exactly what you said.Yeah. You know, once you're aware, then you have the power. But if I'msuppressing it, then I'm suppressing it and then I'm denying that Ieven have that feeling. And then if you don't accept that there is an issue,then you won't fix it. So then you'll continue to behave in that way.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. And you have the choice to change in the future. Exactly right. Ifsomeone points out to the, to you the fact that that remark wasracist. That remark was whatever. Yeah. And you go, Idon't care. Well, that's your choice. Yeah. You have the choice to change. Tellingsomeone to change is not what you're trying to do. You're trying to. You're tryingto create a gravitational attraction to change, beingpositive, aren't you? So. Right. Show, don't tell. Yeah, yeah. And,
Bhavesh Naikguest
yeah. And there are patterns that we play out. There are certain beliefpatterns that come to the surface in awareness. So for example, ifI have certain views about certain race of people or certain shape ofpeople and they are hidden, there is nothing wrong. We all have flaws,Right. We might have some experience with a parental figure who was shortand that person wasn't nice to me. So then I have may have been holdingsome grievances about people for short. Right. Sothen I may react to them in a certain way. But if I'm aware of,of my patterns, my emotions, my thoughts while I'm interacting with people, thenI would over time begin to see that, that, hey, there is a pattern. Youknow, I don't like short people. Right. So then if nothing else, you will beable to. Course correct. And you will be able to say, well, okay, you know,I need to be aware of the fact that I have this issue so, youknow, may play out because these things are. As soon. As long asthese things are subconscious, we have no power. Exactly what you said.But once they come into our awareness, then we have the power to change ourbehaviour and ultimately even change that. Pat, that. That takessome work sometimes, but. Yeah, but we can at least change our behaviour.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
This has been an absolutely fascinating conversation and you're right, we could dive evendeeper into this and spend many, many more hoursgoing into this. And I've really enjoyed it. So how can people get holdof you, you know, if they want to find out more? Sure. The best way
Bhavesh Naikguest
to get hold of me is my website, which is AWAY R E and I spell it out because thepronunciation of that name is actually aware. But it's spelled with a Y,right? A W A Y R E dot com. The best thing that I askfolks to do is go to the top right and click the Starthere button. And that gives you some assessments and some. Just allfree stuff that allow you. That allow you to take someanswer, ask some question or answer some questions and it gives you some. Somereports and things like that. So. Yes, and then you can.From there you can get my email, my LinkedIn.I'm on LinkedIn a lot. Yeah, I've been on your website before
Joanne Lockwoodhost
and there's quite a lot of video content on there as well, isn't there? Andthat's true. Interviews you've done and yeah, there's some good stuff on there. So notjust, yeah, the interactive stuff, but yeah, you can consumemore of your ideas on the videos and things. Yes, I've
Bhavesh Naikguest
done some videos on some of the things that we're talking about today. I alsohave a podcast which is called the Business Philosopher with the newpodcast and on that podcast I have people who havebuilt successful organisations and some of the leaders we talked abouttoday, they fit in that category. Reallygreat people that I've interviewed, includingJoanne. Little old me. Yeah, I was a guest a
Joanne Lockwoodhost
couple of weeks ago. You were a guest a couple of weeks ago. So,
Bhavesh Naikguest
yeah, so we have had some great conversations on that. Encourageyou to check it out. The podcast. Yeah, excellent. Well, I'll put all those details
Joanne Lockwoodhost
in the show notes, so I'm sure people will get in contact with you andI'll make sure your LinkedIn profile's there because as you say, it's a place youhang out a lot. So do I. So, yeah, no doubt we'll bump into eachother again there very soon. Sure, sounds great. Thank you. So much.
Bhavesh Naikguest
Thanks. Thanks for having me on your podcast. Enjoyed and this was a great conversation.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Thank you. Enjoyed it. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
As we bring this conversation to a close, I want to expressmy deepest gratitude to you, our listener, for lendingyour ear and heart to the cause of inclusion.Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing, subscribe intoInclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing communitydriving real change. Share this journey with friends, family andcolleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.Got thoughts, stories or a vision to share? I'm allears. Reach out tojo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukand let's make your voice heard. Until next time, thisis Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return withmore enriching narratives that challenge, inspire andunite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world one
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood is joined by Bhavesh Naik to explore the transformative role of self-awareness and humanity in building successful, resilient organisations. The conversation navigates the nuances of self-awareness—both as lived experience and practical skill—in high-performing workplaces. Joanne and Bhavesh dissect the subtle power of observing oneself, moving beyond intellectual definitions toward a more embodied, present-centred awareness that empowers individuals and teams to thrive. Listeners are invited to reconsider the foundations of leadership, emotional intelligence, and the dynamics of inclusion, while drawing connections between personal insight and organisational change.
Bhavesh is a business performance and longevity expert who helps organisational leaders nurture thriving cultures by embracing the full humanness of their people. Renowned for his deeply realised sense of self-awareness and innovative thinking, Bhavesh champions a holistic approach to leadership development. His distinctive perspective challenges traditional management theories rooted in the industrial age, proposing instead that true transformation is driven by nurturing awareness and authentic connection across all levels of a business. Bhavesh draws upon years of experience with executive coaching and team facilitation to offer practical frameworks—grounded in both science and lived wisdom—that help organisations shift from dependency and disengagement into empowered, conscious collaboration.
Throughout their discussion, Joanne and Bhavesh probe how self-awareness can be harnessed to close the gap between reaction and reflection, move teams towards higher engagement, and reframe emotionally intelligent action as a form of emotional awareness. They address the need for leaders to foster open dialogues, offer practical exercises for cultivating self and situational awareness, and interrogate the impact of workplace culture on inclusion and belonging. The episode spotlights how authentic relationships and a celebration of individual uniqueness can unlock potential within organisations, even in the face of bias or resistance to change.
The key takeaway from this episode is that harnessing humanity—by fostering self-awareness and valuing genuine connection—creates the bedrock for organisational success. Listeners will be equipped with practical strategies to drive inclusive transformation, ignite cultural alignment, and elevate both individual and collective performance. Tune in for actionable insights to help you and your organisation not only belong— but truly thrive.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Inclusion Bites, SEE Change Happen Ltd or Joanne Lockwood. This episode is shared for general interest and discussion; we accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any statements made.
