Cedric explores the pivotal intersection of leadership, educational empowerment, and belonging by weaving personal narratives, social context, and intergenerational transformation to illuminate the path from adversity to inclusive systemic change
Foreign.Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuaryfor bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart ofinclusion, belonging and societal transformation.Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyonenot only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone.Join me as we uncover the unseen, challengethe status quo and share storeys that resonatedeep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you'resipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let'sconnect, reflect and inspire action together.Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach outto jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukto share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.And today is episode 190 with thetitle Leadership, Learning and Belonging. And Ihave the absolute honour and Privilege to welcome Dr. Cedric Howard.Cedric is a higher educational thought leader and financial
Joanne Lockwoodhost
empowerment advocate who is dedicated to breaking cycles ofpoverty through inclusive leadership and real world impact.And when I asked Cedric to describe his superpower, he said that itis translating complex policy into everyday storeysthat inspire actionable change. Hello, Cedric. Welcome tothe show. Thank you. I'm honoured to be here. Looking
Dr Cedric Howardguest
forward to the conversation. Absolute pleasure. So
Joanne Lockwoodhost
we were chatting in the green room just before we went live and I thinkyou said you were in North America at some place.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Yes, you talk about sleepless in Seattle. I'm in the wonderfulcity of Seattle. Seattle. And I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
guessed this correctly, so this is not cheating. I guessed it was in Washington stateand I just. Yes, we're
Dr Cedric Howardguest
nested between California, Oregon and BritishColumbia, Canada. So I get. I've been to
Joanne Lockwoodhost
New York a few times, I've been to Miami a few times, I've been toSan Diego, San Francisco and L.A.What's the Seattle culture like as a state? Or do you have an identity?
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Yes, we have what is calledSeattle. Nice. It is the place everyonelikes to come to when they enjoymoderate weather because it's pretty much between 40 and 70 yearround. A hot day for us is like72. Not a lot of snow, especiallyon the i5 corridor door. But it's the place you come when you wantto just relax, chill, get you a cup of. Of coffee. Of course,you know we're known for being the home for a famous coffee placethat shall remain nameless. Yes, of course, but.Of course, but no, it is a place that I have Grownto love, in part because it is a place where youridentity and who you are as a person is accepted. And our neighbourhood. I grewup in the southern part of the United States where race was an issue,either things were black or white, and where you went, you knewbased upon your ethnic makeup here, whether.Whether you are straight, gay, black, white, however youdecide to identify is well embraced and welcome, in part becausethe Pacific Northwest community is one that looks atinclusion as an assetand we embrace it. If you were to go into my neighbourhood, or you wereto go into my place of business, where my office islocated, I mean, sometimes people refer to itas United nations because you may hear two or three differentlanguages just as you're entering the door or you're playing outside with thekids. Pacific Northwest, I've heard that term. I never really associated that with a
Joanne Lockwoodhost
geographical language location. But, yeah, obvious, isn't it? You're on the Pacificand you're in the Northwest. So, yeah, you mentioned the i5. I didn'trealise it went all that way up. It goes all the way from basicallyMexico all the way through, up to Washington State then, does it?
Dr Cedric Howardguest
That is certainly the case. Certainly the case. Unfortunately. You know, one of the,I would say the liabilities of being in the Pacific Northwest isbecause it's so green, we have a lot of allergies that are blooming duringthis time of season. So we have to adjust and adapt from that perspective. Otherthan that, that's the worst we have to deal with here.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So you're on the i5 all the way at the top, aren't you? So I,I, I bumped into the i5 in San Diego, in LAwhen I was there. And my claimto fame is I went to Mexico by mistake. I was driving down thei5 and was chatting away and, and missed the sign said last USExit and then next sign is welcome to Mexico. Andit was a, a bit of a, kind of like, oh, that was a mistake.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
It was an aha moment. Yeah. So if you would continue north, you would takethe eye up through Oregon and intoWashington and you will eventually end at the Canadianborder. So it literally goes from Canada to Mexico along
Joanne Lockwoodhost
that coast? Yeah. Yes, yes. Literally, it is
Dr Cedric Howardguest
the gateway between three different countries.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Wow. Yeah. When I was in, I worked in LA for awhile and we did spend a bit of time cruising up and downthe pch. Yes. Yeah. Pacific.Yeah. So you go there, all the RVs on the side of the road, parkingover the, looking over the Pacific, and you just go on and on and on.There's back to back RVs for 20, 30, halfan hour as you're driving them. Yeah, well, see, you know, the uniqueness of
Dr Cedric Howardguest
being in some place like the Pacific Northwest is in part becauseall of the Californians, actually manyof them have residents here in Washington state,in part because of our tax system. You know, Californiais a high tax state. In Washington State wedon't have a state income tax. And soyou can, as we say, you make your money in California,but you have your permanent residence and address here in Washingtonstate so that you don't have to necessarily pay the taxes or as many taxeson your income. And that's kind of what we, what we're known for.What I oftentimes say about being in Pacific Northwest,it is the utopian community that you didn'tknow existed. And I have to say that veryrespectfully, in part because when people come hereand they're walking around and they're trying to, you know, enjoy thesights, whether it is a space Needle or they're going to,you know, see some of, you know, because, you know, literally in, inSeattle you could be fishing in the Pacific Oceanand then literally an hour from, from, from there you could beskiing all in the same morning or same afternoonbecause we go from actually sea levelall the way up through the point where you have Mount Rainier.And so it is a diverse community that people, you know, fallin love with. But when you come here, the thing that most people are surprisedis just how genuinely kind people are.And three out of the top 10 zip codes, United Statesfor its diversity is here in metropolitan Seattle area.I giggled because I said, wait till you see the insurancecommercials. And so there's insurance commercialswhere people are literally at four way stops and they say, you go. No,you go. No, you go, you go. And no one can decide whoto go because people are just so kind and so nice,you know, and that could be a bit shocking because you begin tosuspect something's wrong. And I think it's just a community environmentthat have really been cultivated here in the Seattle area.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Sounds heavenly. Maybe in a few years time when it's safe to travelagain. I may venture that way. You never know. That is
Dr Cedric Howardguest
certainly the case. I mean, we have a much larger issuearound travel and Visa and other things that we're dealing with here in the UnitedStates that I think is something that is a bit of anovercast in relationsto travel and how we deal with things. So. Well said. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it's a bit complex right now, so we'll just wait for clarity andsee what happens. Anyway, soyou're an educational thought leader. What does that mean?How did that come about? So it was actually a mistake,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
to be quite honest and frank. I got into higher educationliterally. You know, people say, never waste a good crisis.And my actually introduction to higher education wasa crisis. And I had used it to maximise theopportunity and really cultivate and create and curatea career that has led to me being considered a thought leader here in theUnited states. So in 1993,it was the first recorded case of policeofficers actually, you know, abusinga person. And that person's name was Rodney King.I happened to be working at a university as a studentand that day my campus wasin the state of Georgia. And actually the
Dr Cedric Howardguest
campus, very proud of being a graduate of that institution, wasthe very first capital of Georgia. It actually sits geographically in thecentre of the state and the governor's mansion is on campus. Andso a couple blocks from there is the residence hall, very large Residencehall, about 800 students that resided there. And that daywe had just literally finished playingintramural basketball and everyone was having fun.And when the verdict happened on thethe Pacific coast in California, three hours later, those same people wereactually physically attacking each other because of theverdict. And of course, like I said, everything in the south, especially back then, wasblack and white. So you had friends that were getting along now, attacking each otherbased upon their colour. And I'm a relatively bigguy, you know, six, four. And so I did something
Dr Cedric Howardguest
that I thought I would regret, but actuallybecame the springboard for my career. I ran into the residentassistant's office and got duck taped and I went andgrabbed people because they respected me. At that point in time, I was student bodyvice president and had just been named Hong Kong King for thecampus. And I began to duct take people to telegram pollsto. If you stay still long enough,I would duct tape you to someone else just so you can fight each other.Well, the next day I got called to the president's office and the vice presidentwas there and the chief of police was there and I knew that I wasgetting, you know, suspended and expelled from school. And they literallysaid to me, hey, Cedric, when we begin this and yourname came up, we were shocked because we was like, Cedric was involved.I can't believe he was, you know, involved in this particular situation in a negativeway and realised, no, you were actually the saving grace. And so, no, you're notgetting kicked out of school. What we would like to offer you is an opportunityto consider higher education as a profession. AndI said, as a profession? They said, yes, we go to school to becomecollege administrators. I said, I've never heard of that before. They said,well, when you graduate next year, we would like to recommend you to a coupleof schools. Which they did. And I was accepted. And ultimately thatbecame the springboard and trajectory of a career thathas spanned more than 30 years. And so that has evolved intome really curating my career to say as a firstgeneration college student, which I am, how do I create anenvironment where people that are similar to me, people that are coming from disadvantagedbackgrounds, people that are students that are coming from less thandesired socioeconomic classes into the. Give them agateway into the academy. And so that's how I have created mycareer. And because of that, when there's a thought thatneeded to be considered and, or interview, you know, justthis last week I've been interviewed by Forbes and, andYahoo Finance. And just think over my career, I've been interviewedfor north of 150 publications.When there's a question that is beenbatted back and forth around, you know, how does this affect the student experienceand affect students. Usually I'm getting a call in order toprovide some narrative. But it all began a chance situation,you know, in April of 1993 because of theRodney King situation. And some action Itook actually led me into a careerof being a higher education administrator and then ultimatelya college professor andwriting chapters and books for the profession.And now I'm considered to be a thought leader and as theyoung people say, an OG and a higher education og kind of the oldguard, you know, even though I tell them I'm not, I don't look as oldas I actually am. As you talk about. I've got loads of questions in my
Joanne Lockwoodhost
head that I just want to, I really want to dive in there. Please go
Dr Cedric Howardguest
ahead. For those listening, who is
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Rodney King? I've heard the name as being outside of theU.S. i don't know the storey. And it was what, 22 years ago?23 years ago. What's the quick storey about who RodneyKing was? Yes, so Rodney King actually
Dr Cedric Howardguest
was, believe it or not, was 32 years ago. It was in 1993,California. We talk about the PCH. Rodney Kingwas the first actual recorded police beating of acitizen. And it was on. It was a situation in California where hewas a driver that was pulled over and you know, dozens ofpolice Officers responded and he was. There was a recordingof four police officers beating him hundreds of times.And it was the. You know, for me, it became theintroduction of recorded activity and actions thatwas uploaded from a camcorder andthat video went viral before we knew the term viral acrossthe world. And then ultimately there was a case of thosefour police officers with the video and they were acquittedand said that their actions were just. And that ignited. Itsparked a lot of racial tension and frustrationwithin the United States. So that's kind of the premise of, youknow, some people have heard of George Floyd, but this was the original casebefore George Floyd happened. Rodney King was the veryfirst recorded police case ofbrutality here in the United States. As a black man
Joanne Lockwoodhost
yourself, a part of the community, you must have been outraged aswell, just from a racial community point of view. Buthow were you feeling at the time? Well, I didn't know how
Dr Cedric Howardguest
to feel at the time. You know, at this time, you know, I'm not even,you know, I'm not even. I think I was like 19 or 20and, you know, and I'm a college student. And I realised that in ourcampus, I mean, we're only 5% of the student population.And here I am as a student body officerand, you know, recognised by our community. For me,I was raised in an environment and just knowing mystorey, I was raised, you know, one of. One of my thingsI've done for its financial literacy and that part, and I'm kind of circle backaround is I go into communities, I tell the storey of how I went fromwelfare to wealth and generational wealth. Andpart of it was that I was raised in a community that took care ofeach other, where, you know, your neighbour's needs were your needs.And so I took that same thought into theacademy, into the university. And so as a residentassistant living in our residence hall, I went into acommunity saying, okay, why are we fighting each other for no reason? I mean, we'refriends. And so I just went into action the same way I wouldhave been in the inner city had I been at home. If something's happened, youjust jump into action. And so I didn't see myself asa large black man now after the fact I did. But duringthe situation, I saw myself as a student body officer. I saw myself as anagent of the institution. I saw myself as interacting with friendsthat had a relationship. So this wasn't transactional, this relational.And I think that allowed me to take offthe blinders that would have blinded me Had I thought about,I'm a large black man about to go and grab someone who's not black,because that would have, you know, fear would have forced me, you know, toforfeit ultimately what became my promise. And I'm veryfortunate that it did. It. It takes a. Well, with hindsight, it must have taken
Joanne Lockwoodhost
a really. It's been ingrained in your psyche and personality thatyou were looking for resolution and to pulltogether rather than get angry and push apart. That must take a real kindof core value of yours that you've brought through. Well, one of my core
Dr Cedric Howardguest
values as a person and as an educator is the greateststruggle you have to overcome is the one within yourself. If you can't win thebattle of your own thoughts and the self talk and rewire yourmind to think positive and seek positivity,then you're already defeated. And so I livemy lifelong perspective that a crisisor a threat is nothing more than opportunity. No simply meansanother option. And so I have to look at my life from thatperspective, not from a deficit mindset. And I oftentimes say thatif we begin with that, then you and I havenever met each other, but there's a kinship that we canengage in a conversation with honesty andin a authentic manner that I think is beneficialfor others that review this particular conversation. Now, if we beginfrom that perspective, we've already won. We've already setan environment, an ecosystem that we can learn from each other. AndI think that is critical in any conversation and debate to givethat person the agency to be who they areand to respect who they are. And so that's the way I approachlife. That's who I am as a professional, who I am in, you know, inhigher education. Because almost every highereducation institution is nothing more than a reflection of the community that itresides within. That is all that it is.It is simply a smaller, miniature version of, of what ishappening with the factors and the influences that areaffecting it. And so we, you know,discuss things in the same way. The difference is that wecreate an environment that says it is okay to have debate, itis okay to be frustrated, it is okay to, to engagein conversation, but you must do so upunder the umbrella or the premise of that you respectthe person that you're engaging in debate with. Thatis something that I think we can. Can mirror in society. And I think that'swhat has come for me. And that's why that being a person from adisadvantaged background, I had all the things that was against me. You Know,I was the first in my family to go to college. Well, statisticssay I shouldn't make it. Definitelywas not. Only 4% of African Americans inthe United States and only 2% of African Americansacross the world have terminal degrees, you know,for a doctorate, you know. And so for me, it was creating anenvironment to say, because I've come from those places, why shouldI fear, you know, the situations I'm dealing with? Becausewe should create an environment where people feel valued, seen, and mostimportantly, validated. That's how we should lead asindividuals and citizens. I completely agree with you. I think I would also describe
Joanne Lockwoodhost
myself as an educator rather than an activist. Andas you're talking now, I'm thinking, I've almost in my own mind thinking.When activist talks without listening, an educator's first, firsttool is listening before talking. And it's trying to understand wherepeople are and meet them where they are first, rather than telling everybodywhere you are. It's a slightly different approach. AndI think I use the word thought leader in yourintroduction. And that's part of that. It's leading thought, isn't it? It'sbringing people around the table to have these conversations anddisarming people and saying, hang on a minute, we're not going to solve anything bybeing at polar opposites here. Yeah. And I think an important part
Dr Cedric Howardguest
of being. What I have learned about the convenience of leadersis that you may have content, but it'salso important to have context. Because when you havecontent with context, you have clarity.And what I have decided to do, especially in mysphere of influence working with higher education deans, vicepresidents and presidents, is say, have we thought about the contextby which we're going to present this content? And that'swhere we've been able to leverage games and reallycome off from the perspective of everything that we feelmay not be felt or seen by those that aremaking decisions. Almost every incident,every public institution in the United States reports up,ultimately, through a community or state board, apolitician. And so not to acknowledge thatpublic's desire has some influence on thatpolitician, which has influence on your funding, is a fallacy.It's a flawed thought. And so we got to begin with that first. And
Dr Cedric Howardguest
so leveraging the thoughts is saying, timeout. What is importantto you as a politician? What is important to you as a power broker? Whatis important to you as a part of the citizens and the communitythat you serve? That's where we should begin, because we should bethe community's college or the Community's university and nota, and not an ecosystem ororganisation or a structure onto ourselves. Andthat's where I have learned being, you know, considered a thought leader isbecause I have said my primary customer in highereducation are students. And what I do is create anenvironment where access and success becomes theguiding principles for leading decisionsthat ultimately serve our primary customer, which are students. And whenwe get that as the focal point, then we canmake more, we can make much more meaningful,direct and intentional decisions that support the students that weultimately serve. How do you make sure that you're humanising the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
individual? Because sometimes when you're making decisions at apolitician level, at a campus level, whatever it may be, it's too easy tosee a student as an entity rather thanthe breadth and depth, the intersectionality, the individual within that.And how do you bring out the human into your model?
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Well, I think the most important thing is to make sure that at everystage of the decision making process you're involving studentsto bring that voice. Because as a senior leveladministrator or as you know, when I'm being interviewed, I'm thinkingin the macro because I'm trying to get a point across to the, to themasses. But storytelling is extremely important. That's why,you know, from every phase of development and everypoint of discussion actually have a student that is part of that process. OftentimesI have a couple students because they have different storeys to tell andthey have different experiences. So making sure that we involvestudents, one of the things that I have learned, and thisis important lesson I think is critical for the, for, for yourlisteners and a part of our conversation. Too oftenthose that are in power are making decisions based uponwho is funding or who is giving input intotheir decision making process and they're not involved in the people that are beingaffected. And so for me, I beganjust the opposite to say, okay, let me truly understand what is the problem.So I go to the people that are affected first, understand the problemand then I develop a solution based upon the programme,the policy and or procedure that actuallyaddresses the problem. And I think that's how youresolve the issue of thevoices of the individuals that are being affected. Start with themfirst. Don't create an issue or problem based upon the fundingsource and or the political influence that maycraft a statement for you because their interests have alreadybeen met. Go to the people that are going to be affected and start therefirst, because now you can craft something that is actually meaningful andintentional and actually get to address what the issues actuallyare. Yeah, no, I see that. And you're right. Sometimes you got to ask, ask
Joanne Lockwoodhost
the money what their motivation is. Yes, yes. And often just tomake more money. You gotta understand the person's why, because that's what
Dr Cedric Howardguest
drives them. And, you know, you gotta alsounderstand the process. The process determine the product that you produce. Andso in my process or processes that I lead, I make sure I have alleffective parties at the table so that they can engage inconversation and inform decisions as we're moving forward. You
Joanne Lockwoodhost
mentioned earlier that you're a first generation college graduate.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Yes. That implies to me that you're not the last. See,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
you're now the beginning of your new family tree. Yes.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
So very briefly. So go back to the storey ofundergraduate career. So a year Later, June of 94,I graduated and I happened to be the first in my family to ultimatelygraduate. So my, my, my grandmother came and I've kind oftold this storey because it became the genesis of the new iteration ofour family. My grandmother came and my grandmother's 5:1,and she said, you know, can I have your gown? And I said, no, thegown belongs to me. And she says, you know, in this, you know,very direct Southern grandmother voice,baby, if you want to see tomorrow, you will give your nana the gown.I said, yes, ma'. Am. So I took the gown off and I gave itto her. At that point in time, it was myself and 11 cousins. I'm theonly child. My father was the only child. So on that side, I was onlychild. On my other side of my mother's side, my maternal side, I'm the oldestof the grandkids. And so mygrandmother asked for my cousins to get into this gown. And she says, fromthis standpoint, each of you owe me acollege graduation gown. That is my expectation for you. I don't want anymoney. I want college graduation gowns. That dayset the trajectory of my entire family. We're veryfortunate. There's 18 of us now. All 18 havecollege degrees. My mother, who was
Dr Cedric Howardguest
a young mother who gave birth to me out ofwedlock and eventually we were born into,at that point in time, what was welfare, went back to collegeand went to college when she was in her late fourth 40s.And then 14 years later, 14 years later,she's the second doctor my firstborn happens tobe. We consider her to be the real doctor because she actually has a medicaldegree. She graduated college with her first degree at 16,medical school to 21, and now at 26, she's apractising neurologist. And then we, my son, we refer to himas the slacker, in part because he's the naval officerand actually serves in our US Navy. He only has one degree,so he just graduated a year ago. So we told him he need to stepup his game a bit. But I say all that to say, not thatanything was special about our family other than there was aninflection point. It was an inflection point where my grandmother said, enoughis enough, you know, I'm tired of us having this cycleof poverty. And here's now the new expectation.And so, you know, the youngest, when he just graduated about aweek or so ago, he's taking his gown and actually in a couple ofdays we're going to have a ceremony because his 18th gown that we'll putactually, my grandmother's no longer with us and so we'll put it actually on thechest on her grave. And that will bring thatversion of her vision to fruition. But it has set atrajectory for a new version of her, who we are. And I would say forgenerations to come, we would tell the storey of my grandmother in part becausethat day it changed the trajectory of our family.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That's really powerful. It's so powerful. I didn't get a degree,I didn't go to any university, I joined the Royal Air Force, so I joinedthe. I had a military career when I left school and myfather didn't have a degree either and my mother didn't have a degree. When Iwas growing up, she went back to become a teacher and she got a degree.I was already an adult, so I can't really claim that she was a previousgeneration degree holder. She went back afterwards. But our twochildren, our daughter and our son, both had degrees when I grew up.It was never an expectation, that part of the education, it was. I wasbrought up in a trade apprenticeship rather than theprofessional side, so my destination was electronics andengineering, but I didn't need a degree for that. So, yeah, I mean, all ofthe fact that you started this tradition within your own family and created thisbecause it's a belief system. If my parents said to me,the expectation in our family is for you to get a degree, my life wouldhave gone that direction. But they didn't. Which. It's not good or bad.It is, but, yeah, I think fair onto yournana. Yeah. And I think, you know,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
for many, when they actually, you know, when I, when I do keynotes and Ido speaking engagements, people actually shock so you promote people togo to college and get a degree. No, I promote you to get an education.And for some people your education is to go to trade schoolor your, your education is to learn how to do the business that you'reseeking. For me and my path isI need to get a college degree but for othersit may be that you are going to become an electrician oryou're going to get a trade. I promote that there should be some postsecondary education that prepares you to havea job or trade that providessupport for you and resources for you to live. That is what Ipromote as an educator because college and the academy, college of the universityis not for everyone. And I say that, you know, if you have atree and you're skilled with your hands, go for it.My son knew that he wanted to go into the militaryand so the compromise was that hey, youcan do this, here's a programme for you to go through. If you're going todo it, consider being an officer. Well, he was very fortunate in order, in orderfor that to occur. But he got his degree and,and, and, and, and he got his degree in navalscience because that's what he knew he wanted to do. He didn't get it inanother discipline. He knew he wanted to go into Navy, he knew he wanted tobe a lifer, that's what he wanted to do. Thecompromise was to get a degree. But if he were to say to me, Iwant to go directly in and he was passionate. We've been like son, we're supportingyou, we support you just longest, you're going to have training andyou're going to have a skill set and a trade to live off of.That is the most important thing from our perspective. When you talk there about the
Joanne Lockwoodhost
educational side and the financial independence, it reminds me ofthe tsunami that was in the 2004Sri Lanka and India and around that area. And I was involvedhelping people post that tsunami funds,whatever. And I also got involved with a programme that they used to have inIndia called Freedom through Education. And I didn't understandwhat it was until it was explained to me that freedom education was allowingthe Indian population to break free of colonialism. So that wasthe freedom from colonialism through education. But youcan apply that metaphor, you generate life choices andfreedom by being educated, by being marketable, by havingskills, by having a value in society. So what you're doing there isyou're giving people a worth, aren't you? Through education? Yeah, and
Dr Cedric Howardguest
essence real important. So I give I'm going to give you a fact thatthat's going to probably shock you because it shocks many. Now I've been in highereducation, like I said now for 31 years. I'm also an entrepreneur.So I have a consultant firm that works with leaders andI have a couple other companies that fall up under my largerumbrella. I have made more money from being anentrepreneur than I have from being an educator. So myentrepreneurial aspects and spirit actually funds for mebeing a college administrator. And sothat's why I say I can't frown upon someone who hasa spirit to learn and they may not want to gosit in a classroom for four or five, six years, but they can gothrough an eight week programme, become an entrepreneur and be a successfulbusiness person, they can run a successful tradesoperation. Why would I promote that? Why wouldn't I support that? Youknow, when I look at my cousin's action number four, because my grandmother referredto us, not by name, she referred to us when she was alive by numbers.So she called you by your numbers. I don't think she ever knew all ofour names, she just called, you know, she always got the number right. Butnumber four actually went into the Navy first andthen got out of the Navy after 20 years. And that's when she wentto college, became a paralegal and now she's an attorney. Now imagine ifwe would have said, no, you got to go to school first. She would havebeen like, no, that would just not. Would not have been her.So give people the agency to go down the paththat is most suitable for their desires and who they are as individuals.Ultimately the life satisfaction and happiness is a lotmore, is a lot more rewarding from that perspective other than forcing peopleto do things because, you know, that's thefad of the day. That is, you know, the issue du jourand it is the, you know, the, for lack of better. It's asexy thing. No, I want it to be sound, notsexy. I want to make sure that it is going to be sustainable.And you know, that's where I say that's real talk. That's the educator inme that says, yes, you could do it, but how you do it maybe very different than how others do it. Yeah,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I think it's also important for young people to appreciate. You don't have to getit right first time when you're 16, 17, 18, 19,20, that age. We often end up making these decisions in ourlife that we get to our late 20s and goactually, I'm on the wrong bus. I should be over somewhere doing something else. AndI think we too often expect our younger people tohave a destination before they're ready to find one because. We have these
Dr Cedric Howardguest
fallacies and scripts. And I said there's four things we have to addressin any situation to change your trajectory. For one,we have to address, I call them the hates. You have to address the habits,you have to address the attitudes, you have to address the beliefs, and you alsohave to address the expectations. That event that occurred for me when Igraduated changed a habit in our family. Italso changed our attitudes about what we can accomplish.Then we change our belief system to say, no,this is attainable. And now we have established a set ofexpectations that has allowed us to put systemsthat are in place. And so, you know, for us and our family,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
because it is a belief system, we have structuresin place to ensure that you're going to get the degree thatyou seek. So, you know, you don't have to worry about the funding because wehave a family nonprofit that is set up and trust set up to payfor those things. The more successful we become as a family, the moreresources that are available for the next generation. And so byaddressing your age, your habits, your attitudes, yourbeliefs and your expectations, you can rewrite the mentalmodels and you can rewrite the self talk and a set ofsystems or that are either supporting you and, orholding you back to make sure that they're aligned appropriately toget you to where you need to be. Most successful people havefailed oftentimes many more times than theyhave succeeded, but they've learned how to deal with that failure. And that is how,you know, you understand that successful people become successful because theyproperly learn how to process failures. So, so theydon't, so they don't continue to go down those samepath. I oftentimes prefer it's the R and D method for individuals.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, I saw a study, I can't remember where I saw it, but it's aroundA grade. Students are less likely to be entrepreneurs because they'venever experienced failure in the same way that a D grade student or an Egrade student has always had to live with that failing andretrying mentality and, and they learn how to be more resilient.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Yeah, I wrote an article, I don't know, probably 15 yearsago that many universities was kicking outafter the first year, more 4.0 high school students than they werethe 2.5 high school students because the fools had gotten to college.And they had to learn the survival skills, the grit and resiliency in orderto be able to be successful. They were used to a routine notfiguring things out versus at 2.5, it had some adversity. Andthey've learned to figure things out in a way that was productive andsustainable within a college environment. Don't learn to walk without falling
Joanne Lockwoodhost
over. You have to bump your head, graze your knee. First time you ride amotorbike, you're hanging on, you know you've got it, you got to get it wrongto get it right. Imagine your kids and my kids,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
every time they fell, we ran over to, to pick them up. They wouldnever learn how to walk. And so we have to allow themto scrape some things, some, you know, you know, first in order for them todevelop the chops, in order to accomplish the things they need to accomplish.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Is that one of the challenges we face in today's society wherewe've tried to minimise failure, we've tried, everyone's a winner,everyone's an ad. Everyone has come first. We don't, we don't pick out thewinners and losers anymore because you don't want to make the losers feel bad.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Everyone gets a trophy, everyone gets a participation trophyversus everyone should have gotten the experience forparticipating. And the reward was that you got theexperience. And so I think what we havedone is said we want to make sure that everyone is going to bevalued and seen. I'm not saying disrespect. What I'm saying is thatthere's lessons to be learned from the challenges andthere's lessons from, learn from the experiences, trial and error.So that when you're not there as a parent, when you're not there as asupport structure, they're able to survive.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, I quite happily admit I've spent a lot of my life makingmistakes and I'm better for it. It's only when youmake the same mistake repeatedly that you're not learning if you are. Every newexperience and throughout my 20s, teens,20s, 30s, I've made some huge mistakes in my life.Some of them, I look back and go, oh, blimey, I was lucky to getaway with that, or I didn't get away with it and I deserved not tosort of thing. And yeah, you mess up. But now I'm 60 andI look back and think I've got all those big value pillars inmy life that I can look back on and go, actually, I've got core valueas a result of that. And I'VE got another core value to honesty. Integritycame out of being in situations where I was wantingfor those things and I was coming short and they mademe realise that actually I don't want to have no integrity and I don't wantto have no honesty. Those are now my. A bit likethat film is inside out where you make the core memories drop them down thechute. I think these core memories develop myselfand I know who I am now based on those significantself critical moments. Yeah, yeah, that is critical. You
Dr Cedric Howardguest
know, I tell you a storey.One of the physicians asked my daughter said so you know,you're so much younger than us. I have kids older than you, you know,how, how do you stand up to us? How do you, youknow, because when we're in a situation you arecommanding the room and you're so young. And she saysmy daddy put me in situations where he knew I was going to failand he never rescued me. So when I'm in this environment and we're inthe middle of a crisis, I have learned the skills. Thatis not about the characteristics that I asudeas or you see as a person. It's the characteristics that I'm bringingto the situation are to resolve it. So I don't see youas an elder, I don't see you as. I see you as another medicalprovider and we're equals. Can we address the issueof our patients? Because she understands the lessonsthat I've taught about serving students and they should be the coreof what you do. Her patients are her studentsand that's the environment that she's in. I put in some in a situation whereI knew that she was going to fail. You know, she was11 or 12 and I put her in basketball. She doesn't have anathletic bone in her body. I knew she was goingto fail but she learned, she didn't give up.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
She ultimately, you know, got better at itand better at it and beforefour or five years later, I mean she was one of the top basketball playersin our state and you know,and ultimately played basketball in college. But she tells the storeyof my dad put me in an environment and Ikick and I claw and I was like I hateyou. And I later realised that was the best thing ever happened to me. Sameas my son, I put him in wrestling because I knew he was not agood wrestler and he struggled butnow he's learned how to struggle. And so sometimes asparents, sometimes as moreexperienced citizens, we got to put the younger generations,the younger generation in situations wherethey can learn and grow, be there in case they really fall.But don't pick them up every time they struggle because they're learningskills, grit, resilience, that'll be muchmore conducive for them as adults than had we not put them inenvironments that we got put in, put into you. Because you know, oftentimesour generation just go out and play, just come back, you know, at a certaintime, figure it out, figure out a game to play, you know, figure thissituation out. It is those problem solving skills that Ithink are critically important as a part of the situation. And that's what I alsobring with me into higher education. This is not a complex situation.It is a relatively simple situation.There's personalities involved that make it complex. So let's remove thepersonality and let's actually address what is the core issue. Becauseif we address the core issue, the symptom goes away. Andso when there's complex situation, let's take a step back.I use a five step process I refer to as the nerdy way.It's something that I publish in one of my books. And nerdy stands forthe N is actually an acronym for knowledge, education,research, discovery for you. So you look at your knowledgebase, you look at what you do and you, what you know and what youdon't know, then you educate yourself. That's the key.What, what, where things, what should things be? What are all the information Ineed in order to make a decision? The research is actually theactive learning piece where I'm actually learning how toapply skill set. And then you discover a new youand that new you is what you implement moving forward. That's how I addresscomplex situation. Tell me what I know. That's my currentknowledge. I educate myself, which is the process. The research is actuallythe application of what I'm doing. Because you're testing things, you'reexperimenting and then I come out a better person. That's thediscovery for you. And that isa bit of a method that I've used to deal with almost every complexsituation. And to this day is always bode well in orderto take a complex situation, simplify and make a loteasier for people to consume.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That's a great model and I think that holds youin good stead as you get older and older because it also helps you delegateas well. I think you don't have to do everything yourself. What you're doing thereis you're coordinating the resources that you needto succeed in whatever you're Doing as an entrepreneur, as anemployee, wherever you are in that. And by using that model, what you're doing isyou're mapping out what you need to succeed next. Because
Dr Cedric Howardguest
remember, oftentimes when you're dealing with issues, you don't have to be the contentexpert. You just have to have that connection and serve as aconnector through the connective tissue with the content expert in orderto resolve the situation and or issue. It's
Joanne Lockwoodhost
like being an astronaut. You need telemetry, you need data, youneed trajectory, you need to know conditions, you need to go, okay, now I canplot my course, and then how am I going to get home again? So you'vegot all those parameters in there to make the best decisions is what you're lookingfor, isn't it? Absolutely. But also as an astronaut, that
Dr Cedric Howardguest
is central command and the control unit's job to figure all that stuff out.Your job is to serve as the pilot of the craft, as you use anotherexample, trusting your team. Yeah, you're the jockey. You
Joanne Lockwoodhost
just got to push the button at the right time or hang on in therewhen it gets. Yes, yes. You know,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
I've learned because I spent some time in Englandin 2009 and 10, I was actually working to assist Parliament asthey re look at the academy structure, very similar to the US system.And one thing I learned is your version of football,what we call soccer, that it is trulynot just a sport, it's a lifestyle. And that thecommunities and city, cities by which these clubs are inreally galvanise around the particular club.And then of course, there's when to go to elevation and those type of things.So it reminds us kind of of the situation. The clubsneed the communities that they reside in. The communitiesneed the clubs because the soccerteams become an economic driver for those particular communitiesand a sense of pride. And so you need each other to support eachother in order for all parts and partners to be successful.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. And the team brings the community together. You've got something to getbehind. The wins, the losses, the hope, the dreams, the,the celebrations. And that shared lived experience all comes from thatsporting occasion, doesn't it? I think you have it in the US as well. Wehave the basketball, you have the ice hockey, you have the college football, thevarsities, you have the same things, don't you, in your own way.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Yeah, but our version of it is NFL football, professional football, it's kind ofsimilar. It's just, you know, the tackle football is what everybody kind ofgalvanise around and drive communities to support eachother. You're either a football,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
American football fan or a hockey fan or a basketball. Youtend to polarise again around your sport tribe, don't you?
Dr Cedric Howardguest
That is certainly the case. The most divided timeat any time is the moment that your team is playing.That is the most divided time in any community and or organisation,because you're always supporting your team. Yeah. And as you're
Joanne Lockwoodhost
probably aware, in the uk, we've got a lot of clubs, bigclubs in. So Manchester's got two big clubs, Liverpool'sgot two big clubs, London's got half a dozen big clubs.And where I live, Portsmouth, we've got a rival club just down the road calledSouthampton. So we've always been this. The red team and the blue team and othercities you get the red team and the blue team. It really plays into that,that sort of tribalism and partisanship. It's forthe good. But sometimes it does spill over into excess passion sometimes, doesn'tit? Yeah, sometimes when we allow the liquid
Dr Cedric Howardguest
courage libation to get involved, theinterventions kind of go away and we kind of get a little bitmore animated than we should. Here's a metaphor.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That's where we need to duct tape our people to a lamppost, isn'tit? Well said, my friend. Well said. I still thinkthat's insightful that you found the duct tape and you had the foresight tothink this is the way of de escalating. Great insight. Yeah, well,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
kind of the metaphor in my life is duct tape has held so many thingstogether in my life, especially as a youth. I knew that it was going tohold whatever it was stuck to. And so it was kind of mygenesis in higher education. And it's kind of what I've used to hold things togetherthroughout life. It reminds me of the storey, your
Joanne Lockwoodhost
particular one, as you were. As you were telling your duck tape storey at thebeginning, it reminded me of a situation I was in probably 20 years ago.I was in his club and a friend of minedecided that he was too lazy to go tothe restroom to use the toilet. He decided he wanted to nip out the fireexit and just do his business just outside, because it was a lot easier.And of course, he set the alarm off on the fire exit. He came backin and then security surrounded him. So there's probably about fiveor six big, big security guards. Six, four, six, five. Andit was kind of middling and they just surrounded him. And I looked atthis and thought, it's like a bear pit, you know, he was like being baitedby these people. He was a bit drunk. He'd lost his rational mind.And I could just see this going really badly wrong. They wanted toarrest him, throw him out, kick him. I don't know. This was goingreally bad. For some reason I had the foresight to just walkinto the middle of the circle and put my arms around him and give himthe biggest hug and he's going to get off me. I said, I'm notletting you go. If I let you go, this is going to endbadly. You must now listen to me. Shut up andjust be compliant. Listen to my voice. Listen to my voice. And hecalmed down. I said to everybody, I've got him, I've got him, it's okay,I'll walk him out. And they went, okay, and we over to diffuse and walkit out. And that was my duct tape moment. It just takes that, that, thatcalmness to just take the heat out of that situation. Doesn't.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Takes someone to diffuse the situation, but you don't know it. In amoment, it becomes somewhat instinctive. You just knewthat you needed to do something. And in reflection,post mortem is when you look at and say, I don't know if I shouldhave done that, but it resolved the issue.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Well, I think we all need to have a group of friends with a safeword. So that when things are, when you are not thinking throughyour rational brain, your amygdala kicked in, not your prefrontal cortex,you're really into that adrenaline mode. Someone just needs to come up with that word.And you go, ah, that's my de. Escalation word. Okay.Like picking a cat up by the back of the neck. It goes all floppy.Yeah, it just, we just need that, that something to just trigger your front braingoing, I get it now I'm being an ass. I need to stop. Yeah,
Dr Cedric Howardguest
absolutely. Especially in this era of cameras andsocial media because it lives forever. You muchrather take a, have a moment to pause and for someone to say, hey, I'mgonna, I'm, I'm, I'm going to intervene. You could be upset with me forthe moment, but this moment won't live forever because when itescalates, you know, and gets out of head, it's going to be a lot worsewhen you see it and you're going to say, you should have stopped me. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And usually, well, I couldn't stop you. That's what I mean. We just needthat, need that magic click, don't you? To go, ah, okay,I get it now and you say duct tape them to the lamppost or givethem a massive hug, something like that, just to snap them out. Isn't that what
Dr Cedric Howardguest
friends are for? That's exactly what friends are for. Yeah. You need them in a
Dr Cedric Howardguest
time of concern and crisis. That's a true friendthat can intervene in that point in time when things are, you know,going well, you know, friends are there, but you don't reallyneed them. You need them in a time of crisis and concern. You need peoplewho are going to intervene on you in your stead. I think that's. That'scritically important for life and that's a life lesson we can all takefrom, you know, with us, from this particular conversation.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, no, that's. That's a. That's an excellent takeaway for me. Isduct taping your friend to a lamppost just to save him. Yes. I like it,I like it, I like it. Yeah. Don't recommend it as a. As Icarrying the duct tape every time, but at least the metaphor is real. Yeah, Ilove it. Yeah. Cedric, it's been absolutely fascinating.We can rabbit on for. For hours. I know. Tell me how people getahold of you. So simple way to follow me is
Dr Cedric Howardguest
on social media and. Or my website. So social mediais always Cedric B Howard, C E, D R I C B Howard.And my website is cedricbhoward.com and soyou can always follow me on all the major social mediaplatforms and on my website. Excellent. Well, we're connected on LinkedIn,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
so when this episode goes out, I'll make sure your LinkedIn's taggedand it'll go out on Instagram as well. And all your social links will bein the show notes below. So, yeah, absolutely fantastic. So, Cedric,thank you so much for your time. It's been amazing having a chat.
Dr Cedric Howardguest
Thank you, my friend. As we bring this
Joanne Lockwoodhost
conversation to a close, I want to express my deepestgratitude to you, our listener, for lending your earand heart to the cause of inclusion.Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing intoInclusion bites and become part of our ever growing communitydriving real change. Share this journey with friends, family andcolleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share? I'm allears. Reach out tojo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukand let's make your voice heard. Until next time, thisis Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return withmore enriching narratives that challenge, inspire andunite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world. Oneepisode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood explores the intersection of leadership, learning, and belonging in a conversation with Dr. Cedric Howard. Cedric unpacks the realities and misconceptions surrounding diversity and inclusion in higher education, reflecting on his personal journey from a crisis moment during the Rodney King verdict, through becoming a respected thought leader and advocate for financial empowerment. Joanne and Cedric examine how educational institutions mirror wider society, why authentic student voice is essential in decision-making, and the challenges of tackling systemic disadvantage. The conversation is rich with anecdotes—ranging from the vibrant inclusivity of Seattle to the importance of failure as a component in growth—and offers actionable insights for listeners seeking to create lasting change in their own organisations and communities.
Cedric is a higher educational thought leader and financial empowerment advocate whose life’s work is dedicated to breaking cycles of poverty through inclusive leadership and real-world impact. As a first-generation graduate, Cedric transformed challenges into opportunities, nurturing a legacy of achievement for his entire family. His superpower—translating complex policy into everyday stories—shines as he recounts how his intervention during campus unrest redirected his career towards higher education. His expertise is regularly sought in national publications and policy discussions, with over thirty years in transformative educational leadership. Joanne draws on his experience to unpick what it truly means to humanise policy, empower young people, and create a culture where everyone can belong and thrive.
Listeners will come away from this episode with a renewed appreciation for the role of authentic relationships and shared experience in educational and societal change. Key takeaways include the necessity to centre lived experience in leadership, the power of resilience forged through failure, and how systemic expectations and habits can be reimagined for collective advancement. This episode is a call to ground leadership in empathy and action—be that through duct tape moments or rethinking how we define success—tailored for anyone passionate about making inclusion a lived reality.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Inclusion Bites, SEE Change Happen Ltd or Joanne Lockwood. This episode is shared for general interest and discussion; we accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any statements made.
