Naseem Rochette shares her profound journey of resilience, reframing trauma, and the radiance of joyful energy, exploring how vulnerability, gratitude, and authentic connection can foster unbreakable spirit and inclusive belonging.
Foreign.Welcome to Inclusion Bites, your sanctuaryfor bold conversations that spark change. I'm Joanne Lockwood,your guide on this journey of exploration into the heart ofinclusion, belonging and societal transformation.Ever wondered what it truly takes to create a world? Remember, everyonenot only belongs, but thrives. You're not alone.Join me as we uncover the unseen, challengethe status quo and share storeys that resonatedeep within. Ready to dive in? Whether you'resipping your morning coffee or winding down after a long day, let'sconnect, reflect and inspire action together.Don't forget, you can be part of the conversation too. Reach outto jo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukto share your insights or to join me on the show.So adjust your earbuds and settle in. It's time toignite the spark of inclusion with Inclusion Bites.And today is episode 191 with thetitle Joyful Energy, BreakableSpirit. And I have the absolute honour and privilege to welcome NaseemRochette. Naseem is an award winning author, a keynotespeaker and joy seeker who seeks to help people
Joanne Lockwoodhost
reframe their storeys and help discover growthin life's toughest moments. When I asked Naseem to describe hersuperpower, she said that it is radiating joyful energy thatinspires optimism in the face of adversity.Wow. Hello, Naseem, welcome to the show. Hi, Jo.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Thank you for having me. And I hope that's my superpower. That'swhat I try. Sounds amazing. And
Joanne Lockwoodhost
wow. I'm judging by the accent, you're notover here in the uk, where I'm based. Whereabouts in the world are you? I
Naseem Rochetteguest
wish that I were, but no, I am in New Jersey. Not that I don'tlove, you know, my life here in New Jersey, but I do love the uk.Yeah, it's a hot, sunny May Day. No, June dayhere in New Jersey. Wow. Is it
Joanne Lockwoodhost
disproportionately warm? You know, it's like talking about the weather. Is it? Is it, you
Naseem Rochetteguest
know, like, it's a perfect day, but my officeis my third floor attic, so it's a little bit hot up here. But, youknow, I shouldn't complain about the sun. No, no, there's plenty
Joanne Lockwoodhost
of going on in the world right now that we can complain about. The sun.The sun, yes. There's plenty of craziness in
Naseem Rochetteguest
the world right now. I need to appreciate. We always, although we always need toappreciate the little things especially, yeah, we're.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Less than a week on from the audaciousUkrainian drone strike, aren't we where it, that's just to puta date and time on this, you know, that was a bit audacious. ZelenskyWeb. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of
Naseem Rochetteguest
very concerning stuff going on in the world here in the U.S.you know, in the Mideast, in Europe. It's really hard to believe, whichis why I think it's even more important. I love the work that you do,Jo, in making people feel included, because there is somuch in the world that's happening that is, could,could divide us further. Yeah, no, I agree. And
Joanne Lockwoodhost
it's, we get around the table and start having conversationsaround a table rather than throwing rocks at each other across the, acrossthe garden wall, if you like. We're doing often. Yeah. So your, yoursuperpower is about radiating joyful energy. As I said just now.Where did that come from? What got you into doing what you do? You know,
Naseem Rochetteguest
so it's, it's interesting. So I've always, on some level, beena joy seeker. You know, I was, I was, When Iwas a kid, I was, I was kind of a happy kid, but I wasalso a really, really insecure kid, you know, justparalysed with fear, shy. I grew up in New Jersey. You know, when I grewup, I'm 54 now, there were really no Indians inmy town. I'm, you know, I'm of Indian origin. And I alwaysfelt different and like I didn't belong. But I also,also had this happy, you know, this natural inclination tobe happy. I had, you know, know, happy parents, you know, festive. Actually, myparents were crazy party animals. So, you know, I grew upin a very social environment. And so when I was, you know,the weekends with my family, I was, you know, very social and happy.But, you know, on the weekdays, I was just souncomfortable and shy and insecure.And, you know, I took that insecurity with me actually for,or I lived in that insecurity for a long, long time.You know, I, I, I often say that it was, wasn't until my twentiesthat I really accepted who I was, that Iwas, that I was different and, or I thought differently. And that was all okay.
Naseem Rochetteguest
And then it probably took me another 10 or 15 years to become somebodythat I liked. And all through that, you know, I, I triedto, you know, I, I had this natural inclination to joyand, and how do I find happiness? How do Ispread happiness? How do I make people feel good and,and make them feel different than I felt, which wasuncomfortable and alone and insecure. And Ithink that that has just, it's just served like the joyfeeds joy. Oh, I think the joy keeps me energetic and youngand you know, I know we'll talk about. I had a very traumatic accident sevenyears ago and I think it's that desire to get backto joy and the, you know, when I was. Thought Iwas dying, you know, like thinking about the joyof my life, I think those things kept me going, you know, and soI try to keep that front and centre. I mean, you know, we allsay we only live once. Actually I saw, actually I saw a great littlecartoon on my Instagram recently that said it was like a Snoopy and Charlie Brown.And I think Charlie Brown said, you know, we only live once. AndSnoopy said, no, we only die once. We live every day.And I want to live every day with that joy. That's beautiful. That's a really
Joanne Lockwoodhost
beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I think I remember saying thatand at the time I remember almost like a little tear came in my eye.You could feel that inside, can't you? I really, I do. I think
Naseem Rochetteguest
about it all the time. We live every day. I
Joanne Lockwoodhost
didn't, I didn't realise myself that joy was a thinguntil, until that Disney Pixarmovie Inside Out. And one of the characters,haven't you. Oh, you've got to see it. It's one and two. There's two now,but one of the characters, basically little characters in the little girl's head.And one of the characters is Anger. That little red mantype characters, always, always angry about something, like a little, like atwo year old always angry about something. And then what happens isJoy, who's the female character, effectivelysellotapes anger to a chair and says, right, you'reover there, I'm now running this body. I love that. I wentthrough a similar epiphany where I realised that Joy suddenly took over my lifeand that I'd spent a lot of time with anxiety. I spent a lot oftime with anger and a lot of time all these other emotions in your head.And by centering Joy, that allowed me to seethe world and my life more clearly. So I'm with you here about discoveringjoy. It's amazing. You know, it's interesting you say that about discovering Joy
Naseem Rochetteguest
because I don't know that I used the word joy up untilrecently. I don't think I knew it was a thing. As I reflectback, I know I felt it, but I actually think, you know, some of theways that I solidified it solidified maybe that word or that ideawas. Again, during my accident and journey, Irealised that energy feeds energy. You know, we. And Ireally believed and learned the effect of having apositive energy and how that drives momentum. AndI realised that just by the words that I choose and theenergy that I put forth. I drive differentreactions in the people around me. And it doesn't mean life is always easy.And all our conversations are like, you know, flowers and rainbows and stuff likethat, but the words we choose, the way we say it,you know, the, the tone of our voice, all of that, you know,tells a different storey. And if we focus on a storeywith a positive outcome, with, you know, a belief injoy or an underlying, you know, respectand desire for joy, I think we drive a muchmore positive energy. So you had a pretty significant. Should
Joanne Lockwoodhost
we call it an event? Yeah, understated event, which you can. Obviously you'regonna. You're gonna talk a bit about some seven or eight years ago as you,as you, as you've mentioned here already, you've hinted at this and thisis. You call it your unbreakable dayand tell me what was leading up rather, rather than the day itself.What's going on in your life the week before. Yeah, I guess,
Naseem Rochetteguest
you know, we. We really can't have a conversation. I should, should let. Let allyour listeners know what happened because it is so central to somuch of how I think and talk about.So, you know, I mentioned that I was very insecure. I worked reallyhard to like who I was. Well, on May21, 2018, so seven years ago, you know, Iwoke up on another beautiful sunny day. I'm feelingreally good about myself, really happy in command. Youknow, I have three kids, one working full time. I worked at Microsoft backthen. A really robust life that I worked so hard tobuild and so hard to appreciate. And, you know, I juggled it all. AndJo, I like to say, you know, I juggled it all and I made itlook easy. It wasn't easy, but I took pride in the fact that Icould manage all of this. And, you know, I grew up in a household wherewomen were strong and we didn't ask for help. You know, not asking for helpwas a source of pride. So, you know, I started out myday like that. And by that afternoon, I was in a hospital.I had been hit by a car and run overthree times. The car hit me and then stoppedand then drove over me and then reversed over meand then drove over me a third time. And I was pinned underneath the car.And I'll just let that sit for a minute because I know it's a lot.I know there's, there's. That's not
Joanne Lockwoodhost
accidental, is it? You know, it seems like it wouldn't be,
Naseem Rochetteguest
but it was, you know, and my husband was actually watching the whole thing.I was in a pedestrian crosswalk just a couple miles from my house in NewJersey when a car, youknow, a car turned and hit me in the crosswalk. And the caractually stopped at first. And then, you know, we don't knowwhy the driver did all the things. You know, I actually, I wrote abook about the storey, the unexpected benefits of being run over. Becausethere's so much to talk about just in that event, you know, and Idon't know what the driver was thinking, but it wasn't a hit. You know, myhusband didn't hire anyone to kill me, luckily. And we think we, you know, webelieve the driver just had a lot of really bad judgement, you know.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Compounded that by reverse, you know, lost spatial awareness.Didn't know what was going on, didn't know where you were. Yeah, I mean, I
Naseem Rochetteguest
have some theories. I think maybe she was trying to flee the scene, maybe shewas trying to then get back to where she hit me in the crosswalk. Youknow, maybe eventually she was just trying to get off me. But, you know, everybodywas screaming, you know, just stop. And I, you know, I wasconscious through the whole event.God, I always get a little even, you know, seven years latertalking about it. I was, you know, I wentfrom everything to, you know, initially having that, oh mygosh, she's hitting me on this great day, you know, I'm feeling so good. I'vehad such a wonderful day and not worried, you know, thinking I might be alittle black and blue, but no biggie, you know, cocktail party,storey, whatever. I got hit by a car today, haha. To, you
Naseem Rochetteguest
know, then when she ran over me, you know, I was, I waswriggling, I was trying to get out from underneath it, you know, I didn't, Ididn't want to die. And then when she reversed over me,I remember thinking there's something wrong. Like I could hear inmy husband's voice that he was watching me die. I could hear it in thescreams of all the people watching it, that they were watchingsomeone die. And I had, in those moments, which I'm, youknow, actually feel, I call it a magical accident becausethere's so much that I feel lucky forand that I think I have learned. And one of those things was when Iwas underneath the car thinking, you know, I don't even say 99, Iwas a hundred percent sure I was going to die. I started reflecting back onmy life and you know, having those end of life thoughts.And I remember thinking, you know, why didn't I write mykids letters? I travelled. Every time I get on a plane I'd think, oh, Ishould write them letters just in case, you know, I never did it. And then,you know, my thoughts and it was like 20 minutes of conversation even, you know,in these matter of seconds, you know, cause everything was in slow motion forme. And then I came to the conclusion that although I didn't writemy kids any letters, you know, we've had so muchjoy, you know, we've had great vacations, we would dancearound the kitchen. We were like, we're a happy gang. AndI thought, you know, even though I'm. They're going to lose theirmom, they know who I am because we've had that joy. I've beenpresent, I've, I've filled, you know, their lifewith love and I felt so good about that. But you know what Jo? I
Naseem Rochetteguest
also realised that I did that for my kids, but I didn't do thatfor the other people in my life. No one else really knew how important theywere. I wasn't super effusive and appreciative, you know, I wasalways like nice and caring. But I don't think mostpeople in my life that had an impact, whether big or small,knew the positive effects or that I appreciated,you know, what they did. And I felt like there was a lot left unsaidin the, you know, in the community and in my friend circleand that I felt, felt some regret. But both of those things reallyhelped me afterwards in how I wanted to live. There were, there were nothoughts about I should have saved more money, I wish I got more promotions. Itwas, it was all about people in the people I connected with. As
Joanne Lockwoodhost
you're talking, as you first started talking about that andI, I have a habit of not readingthe briefing notes that you sent through. So I, I flicked through it and Isaw something about being unbreakable, I saw something about being a life changing butI didn't really get into the weeds of that andI, I've, I've effectively discovered everything you just said at the same time.If you're listening to this, I heard that for the same timeand as you were describing it, the visual Image I had in my headwas the end of the previous series of Handmaid's Tale.And if you've seen this, but the lead character, June, she gets run overby a pickup and that person is trying to hurt themand they're reversing back. So you're. You're describing it. I didn't hear that. For me.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Cause, no, I didn't see it yet. But. Sorry, spoiler
Joanne Lockwoodhost
alert. Spoiler alert. But the good news is she survivesand she's a fighter like you. But. So I've gotthis real image in my head of. Asyou were describing it, I had a vision. I wasn't trying to create a picture.I had one. And that's why it was impactful for me. Andwhen you tell that storey to people, people go,obviously, they're shocked, they're stunned. Do they know what to say? Do they knowwhat to ask? Cause I've got loads of questions in my head. I'm thinking, I'mgoing to ask these questions in a bit because that's one of the privileges Ihave of being the host on this show. But do people struggle to sort of.
Naseem Rochetteguest
To say they do? I try to give people a minute to digest it, youknow, when. When there's time, because I often forget quite how ridiculousit is. And I think people, people, their first reaction is,you know, I'm sorry. Like, that's so horrible. But what's interesting is, for me isit's. It's like I learned so much. There's so much joy that has come outof it that I don't look at it as. You know, actuallyrecently I had to do this timeline of positive and negative things.And the accident, oddly, was not a negative thing. You know, it was on thepositive trajectory because of all I learned. But, you know, asyou said, people definitely don't know what to say when it happened.In fact, you know, I don't know if these things are funny. They're funny tome. But when I did write the book, and the book came out andI explained quite the seriousness of the journey and all the things that I learned.Learned. So many people in the periphery of my life said, you know, when Iheard the storey, I thought someone was kidding. I didn't actuallybelieve that you were run over three times. Most peoplejust. It's just so nonsensical that I would be run over threetimes, that a lot of people just didn't believe that it was true. My dad.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask the question that's going through my head.And if you're listening to this, I'm trying to ask the question on your behalfas well. These are the questions that people say, oh, you should never askthat. You should never. It obviously hurt. Which part of you was runover or was it. Or was it all over? So I was. So when
Naseem Rochetteguest
the car first hit, it was, you know, kind of chest level. It was abig suv, a big white SUV when it. And then, you know, thetyres went over me five times. So they went over my. Myknees, they went over my chest. And this is thecraziest. They went over my head and neck.So, you know, it. It went over my head and over myneck. The cars went over my, My head. And I remember. AndJo, the, the look you like. That was how I was thinking about itafter, because I was conscious and I knew what happened. My husband saw what happened.Other people saw what happened. But I thought, how can a car run over my
Naseem Rochetteguest
head and neck and run over me and I'm still alive. And Iremember after the accident, I kept wondering, like, it couldn't have reallyhappened. Like, there's no way that really happened. And a weeklater, and I call this, you know, again, if anyonesees my website or book or anything, you might see this picture. There isa picture of my neck with tyre marksthat showed up a few days later. And I call that my favourite accident picturebecause it was the proof that it really did happen.I mean, I had the pain, but I. I didn't really believeit. And here's another crazy thing. I didn't break any bones.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That was my next question. So you didn't break any bones? No, I mean, I.
Naseem Rochetteguest
I had a lot of very serious injuries. You know, I wascrushed. So, you know, I had a lot of internal injuries.You know, I couldn't walk. I had to have surgery on my eye. You know,I had nerve damage. You know, I was pretty immobile for a while.And I have a traumatic brain injury. I, I still, youknow, I, I don't think how I used to think, but I didn't break anybones. So I was actually never admitted to the hospital.So 24 hours later, I was back at home trying tonavigate what, being a mom. Yeah, yeah, that was probably one of thehardest. You know, there. There were many things that were hard that was very hard.The driver's lack of remorse was really hard. There were acouple things that probably didn't need to be as hard that were, you know, reallessons. So you said to the driver's lack of remorse.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
They understand the gravity of what happened. It was kind of like, were they tryingto imprint it was your fault for getting in the way or something? Yeah, kind
Naseem Rochetteguest
of. So at the. At the scene, the driver. So myhusband was at the scene. So the driver got out of the car, and shewas like a toddler throwing a tantrum. And my husband actuallysaid, like, don't you even care what happened to her? Like, she didn't even. Shejust seemed to be worried about herself. And, you know, I remember the. Thewitnesses, you know, the other people there had to move her away because they couldn'teven talk to me, to try to keep me conscious and alert because of allher screaming. And. But look, you know, that. That'sshock. You know, I actually held. But, yeah, trauma. I get it. Yeah. Yeah.
Naseem Rochetteguest
And. And I thought, you know, she didn't mean to run over me three times.Like, obviously, a lot of bad decisions, bad judgement, but I actuallyheld no ill will to. And when I said, you know, we gota notice in the mail, like a victim's notice, that she was going to bein court, you know, four or five weeks later. So my husband and my daughterand I went to the courthouse, and she was just a fewfeet away from me. You know, I was bandaged, Cane, youknow, scars on my face, you know, glasses,like, you know, I was. I was still in bad shape. And, you know, shehad seen my husband, and she was a few feet away, didn't acknowledgeus, you know, nothing. There was, like,no human kindness or interaction or, you know, I hopeyou're okay, or anything. And I remember it was likesomeone pushed me off a cliff at that moment. That's the moment that Ifully lost control of, you know, my emotions.There was no joy because till that. Till that day, I felt no illwill. She didn't mean to do it. But when I saw no kindness, noconnection, nothing from her, it just broke me. I'm just thinking, if
Joanne Lockwoodhost
she'd have come up to you in tears, full of remorseand devastated, and say, can we hug?You'd have gone, of course we could hug. Couldn't you? You could have done that.But as you say, because someone doesn't treat you inthat way, that there's no acknowledgment of your pain, your trauma and yourfamily and everyone who knows you, thenI'm more upset around that reaction than I am around.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Yeah. As you are. As you say, that's where you lost it. Yeah.Really. Really. You know, when I Say like pushed me off a cliff. I actuallythat day I went home and you know, when my kids think about this day,they still get teary eyed because the mom that wasso joyful was, you know, the happy life we hadon that day, it hit rock bottom, you know, I went home, I remember myyoungest child said, asked if he could go to the pool. You know, it wasa nice day. And I started screaming at him. I was screaming at ourbabysitter at all my kids. Like they, they didn't know whothey were getting when they would ask me something because I just, Iwas so broken, you know, for a minute. And then that's actually the day thatI started. I realised that I no longer could controlmy mental state without more help. And I started onantidepressants and anti anxiety that day. I love analogies and
Joanne Lockwoodhost
metaphors and similes and things like this. And what's jumping into my headhere is Star Wars Jedis and Sithsand the hard thing here is trying to stay in the Jedicamp and not get engrossed with anger andrevenge and all that. That must have been really difficult because itsounds like you were leaning into the Sith there in the dark side, weren't you?
Naseem Rochetteguest
Well, yeah, you know, I, it's, it's strange. I'mnot sure that it was ever anger. I think it was anger for my husbandand for my daughter and you know, all the people that loved me. But forme it was just such a sadness, such adisappointment, you know. And I don't knowthat I've ever really had anger for her, but I've just,you know, I just, I just felt sad. You know, I still feel sad, butI, you know, I focus on the life that I get to leadand the way that I treat people and the decisions I make. Andyou know, I've also, I've also come to reconcile it. You know, one of theother things that I learned during this journey is sometimes the peopleyou think are going to show up for you in your times of needdon't or don't show up the way you expect them to show up for you.What I have realised is that we have noidea the traumas and the triggers of the people aroundus. For instance, today nobody looks at me and says, wow, she was run overthree times. Like I'm sure she can't cross the street. Like no one has anyidea what goes on. And I think that, I think that people, you know, wedon't necessarily know what those triggers are for the People around us. AndI think that my accident, and seeing me broken and bruisedand disfigured and just so weak after beingso such a strong person, you know, it was. Was hardfor people. And I think that. Thatsometimes they can't show up. It's. It's their defence mechanism,you know, it's their body protecting them, their mind protecting them.And so I now attribute that to the driver. Maybe theway that she deals with that accident is bypretending it didn't happen. And is that how I would deal with it? No.But maybe that's her way of protecting herself. I don't livethat way. But you know what? I.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Do a lot of training on challenging conversations and workplaceconflicts, all this kind of thing. And one of the golden rules is you haveto meet people where they're at, you have to understand where someone is,because if you start judging them by where you're at, youhave no idea what's going on in their life. And you somehow, to create thatrelatable experience, you have to find out where they are. I guess you don't reallyknow where she was or what she's at. So by judging her,she may well have been in abusive relationships, you may have been trying to escapesomething. She may have had, I don't know, something going on in her mind orher own mental health concerns. And by judging it by your standardsisn't really. It's not going to get anywhere. So, yeah,that must be the frustration, I suppose, is it sounds like today, even now,you're not sure where she was at. It just. Yeah, I
Naseem Rochetteguest
mean, I saw her a few years later,you know, the insurance legal team was deposing us. And when Isaw her that day, too, I was going around introducing myself to everybody, you know,and when I didn't know she was going to be there and when she walkedin, I didn't want to be rude, I went and I shook her hand andI introduced myself. And I remember even at that moment feeling like,squeeze my hand, do something. And I didn't getthat. And then when she talked about the accident, shealmost talked about it like, I wasn't really in a crosswalk, there weren't reallypeople there. She, like, that witnessed it, you know, almost said itdidn't happen. And that is her defence. That's where sheis, that's where she's staying. And I'm just. I'mnot engaging. No. When you come across people
Joanne Lockwoodhost
with personality disorders, narcissistic tendencies, whatever it may be,you have to disengage and step away, because nothing you can say will change that.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Yeah. And as you said, you know, it's. It's meeting them where they are, youknow, if that's where they are, and that's whether it's by situationor, you know, by intention. I assume that the law
Joanne Lockwoodhost
and law enforcement gave her somethingto think about. No. She lost her. Her licence for 10
Naseem Rochetteguest
days and got a ticket of her failure to yield to a pedestrian.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Is that it? Not attempted murder or attempted manslaughter or grievous bodily harm.
Naseem Rochetteguest
No, there was nothing. Just atraffic violation. Wow, that must
Joanne Lockwoodhost
have been salt on the wound. It was, yeah. Yeah. Especially when I was,
Naseem Rochetteguest
you know, so. So, you know, badlyinjured and, you know, how my life changed. I couldn't drivefor, you know, several weeks, couple months, you know, and she lost herlicence for 10 days. But, you know, again, there was so much that I've learnedfrom it, you know, that I can only focus, orI am choosing to focus on what I can control.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I mean, I just think you could have done an O.J. simpson and gone fora civil claim, couldn't you? And sort of. If the law doesn't protect you, thenwe do the civil. You know, the thing,
Naseem Rochetteguest
though, is then it keeps that wound open for me. Yeah, it
Joanne Lockwoodhost
does, yeah. And look, you know, we've. I'm. I'm very
Naseem Rochetteguest
fortunate, you know, I have a good job, good family,happy life. You know, obviously, there are alwayschallenges and this was very challenging and has changed me,but, you know, I want to focus on. On all that. Good.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And you've got a storey. You got a book. I do have a book. And
Naseem Rochetteguest
actually, so the book, you know, the unexpected benefits of being runover and that is, you know, many people think it's figurative, but it's literal. Yeah.The book is actually something I had no plan to write. So when theaccident happened and I went to the hospital and we discovered I didn'tbreak any bones, many of the nurses and doctors, youknow, it was a. It was a miracle and kept saying, you need to payit forward. You know, you need to. You need to do something. You know, thisis a miracle. And I remember thinking, you know, I. I can't evenopen my eyes. I can't move. Like, I don't want the burden of having topay it forward. But it did plant a seed. And, you know, I keptthinking about how, you know, how can Imake something good out of this? And one ofthe things that happened, you know, in that first year, you know, I I talkabout joy and a happy life. My life wasn't so happy after thisaccident. I would wake up crying every day. I couldn't move. Mybrain didn't work. You know, I. You know, I couldn't hold a coffee cup,I couldn't zip my sweatshirt. You know, I couldn't fill out a camp form. Likeall those things that you don't think about, I couldn't do. It was very,very, very hard. But we made the decision. You know, you talkedabout Unbreakable Day. We made the decision that we were going to get back toa happy storey. And the day of the accident wasn't going to be theday that almost killed me. It was going to be the day that I survived.And we reframed it, you know, andthat reframing allowed us to really change the energyaround the storey. I didn't die that day when I should have.I survived. And then we started to look at all of thethings that you learn in those moments. Because the accident didn't just happento me. It happened to everyone that loved me. It happened to my kids, tomy husband, to my friends. And there's so many things that I learned, you know,one of which is people needed to help mein their. To heal themselves. And I needed tolearn how to let them. I mentioned, I tried to make it look easy and,you know, not accepting help was strength to me. But Ilearned that accepting help, letting people help, is actually anotherdimension of strength. And sometimes that's about them because they needto participate in the journey, you know, whether or not I, I might needthe support, you know, and, and that when you let yourself have the support,sometimes it's just really, it's really beautiful howpeople want to give and help and, you know, do good.So those were, so those were some of the things I was learning. And Iwould send out, you know, an email every year on, on UnbreakableDay and, and say, you know, here are some of the things that I learned.That was my way of paying it forward. And when we werein lockdown with COVID I realised some of those things thatI learned would be of value on a broader basis. We were living in,like, this giant Unbreakable Day. And honestly, ifI could have, if I could have just said, hey, here are these 10 lessonsworld, you know, take that, you know, I'm, I'm done. I would have
Naseem Rochetteguest
just shared that and probably not have a book or anything.You know, I realised people need to know the context and my storey for thoselessons to really have meaning. You know, there's a, there's a section in my bookcalled the Sermon and those are my, Those are my 10 lessons. But the firstcouple parts of the book are about who I am, the journey,how my first transformation of being a person I like tothat person falling, falling apart and then having to rebuild andhopefully being a better, stronger person, you know, or a different, youknow, more, more connected person, you know,that's, that's kind of how the book happened. The book, you know, is, is oftenregarded as a self help or an inspiration or motivational,but it is also a memoir. And it's, you know, I'm sharing probably a lotmore than I would ever have been comfortable sharing with people about, you know, thestruggles, about, you know, my insecurities as a child.You know, candidly, you know, I'll share about a, you know, a suicideattempt that I had never, ever talked about, but then realisedeven, you know, young people especially need to know thestorey can change, your storey can change. And there's somuch power in reframing. And so
Naseem Rochetteguest
that's, that's why the book happened because I feltpeople need an inventory and they need to knowthat it's possible to come out of something really, reallyhorrible and be okay. And you might not be the person youwere before, but you, that doesn't have to be bad. You have to be kindenough to not judge yourself for that. And it was lessons like thatthat I felt were so important to share. Because, you know, another thingI learned through this journey was that we all go through something.I was run over by a car three times, that maybe people haven't experienced that,but people have experienced deaths and job losses andother accidents and things that are traumatic.We've all gone through something and when we share what we've been through, we,we also give licence to other people to share. Are you brave?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm sure people say to you, you're brave all the time. So are you.
Naseem Rochetteguest
I'm joyful. Joyful. Good. Good
Joanne Lockwoodhost
answer. Maybe I'm brave only to be, you know, only to reach that joy.I find, you know, and many people I know who've been through something reallysignificant in their life, people come out and go, theywant to tell you how brave you are, tell you how I couldn't have donethat. And they want to sort of put this on you and then you wantthem to go, it's okay, you could have done it too. I've not anyone special.And you feel like you have to go through this sort of, this way ofletting someone down and go, I'm just a human being. I've just dealt with. I'mjust playing the cards that I given at the time. In 10 secondsof my life, suddenly I went from being this person to this person. I wasn'tbrave, I just carried on, actually. And, you know, I'm so glad you, you, you
Naseem Rochetteguest
brought that point up because something I should share is a waythat I learned to talk about how this is just my journey.So when right after the accident, I had, you know, as. As muchas I didn't like accepting help from people, you know, that I was close tome. My doctors convinced me to see a trauma therapist and the traumatherapist taught me about the, The Japanese art ofkintsugi, where you take a broken piece of potteryand you put it back together with a gold Ted lasso. Broken, isn't it? On
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ted lasso, yeah. And, you know, and, and the philosophy is that gold
Naseem Rochetteguest
inlay, those cracks make the vase more beautiful. AndI really, really caught, you know, latched onto that idea.And actually I would even. I had scars all over my face. I would putgold glitter on my scars, you know, rather than try to hide them,because I decided this was, this was my journey. And just that ideaallowed me to talk about my struggles, not as avictim, but this is my journey. Andjust having, realising that reframing let me be moreopen and more vulnerable and share in ways that I couldn't havebefore. Do you ever get that feeling where
Joanne Lockwoodhost
you press pause on your life for a moment and you were kind ofabove looking down at you going, I now see everything moreclearly. I see where I am in the world, what's going on around. Do youever get that kind of allow yourself to see a bigger perspective of who youwere? Did that happen? You know, I think in
Naseem Rochetteguest
moments it did, you know, and there was in that earlyyear, even in those first moments, I mean, I, like when I thought Iwas dying, you know, I felt, I think I had that clarity.Um, and I think, you know, in those early months, in that firstmaybe year or two years, I had a more acuteappreciation. But it, it goes away if you don'tpurposely remind yourself to embrace it.Like, I have a, you know, a bunch of tattoos. I don't know if youcan see them. Your listeners certainly can see them, but I, I have a bunchof tattoos on my arms now to remind me of thingsthat I learned from the accident because, you know, I'm notall of a sudden enlightened I, I don't, I don't have all thiswisdom. I mean, I try to. Part of actually the, the gift ofsharing. What I learned is that I have, I get to remind myselfbecause I, you know, I, we, we have to actively, youknow, work at many of these things. I mean, is it easier for me toshare now and, and, you know, talk about my journey and mystruggles and, you know, maybe what I would have called weaknesses? Absolutely.But I still have to be intentional about some of the other things I learnedso that I can look at life, you know, more,you know, at a. At a kind of a more inclusive,broader level and appreciate and not get lostin the craziness of a moment or the weight of,you know, of a momentary struggle.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
A lot of people get stuck down tofear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of what if.And I presume what you've been through, that barrier was taken away. You were inthis situation. And the what if is I can't stay whereI am. I've got to move on. I've got to grow. I've got to dosomething. How do you help people find their transformation wherethey can go from fear to can. Yeah, you know,
Naseem Rochetteguest
and I, I think just in even what you said, it's,you know, changing from fear to can. Just think about it. It's. It's the wordsthat you use. It's the storey you tell yourself. It'sthe way, like, you know, even. Let's just take the fact that we call theday of the accident Unbreakable Day, just by simplyreframing and changing the words we use aroundwhat we call that moment. We've done somethingdramatically different, you know, for the people that we tell thestorey to, for how we think about that moment and that day.
Naseem Rochetteguest
And it's, it's actually just little things in thereframing and, you know, I, I often talk about being kindto yourself, and it's. Actually, I talk about it because many of the people thatfirst read the book said that's what they took, that they needed to learn tobe kinder to themselves because we are so judgy with ourselves,you know, but if we, we remember, like,it's okay if we're not. Life is going to change. It is absolutely going tochange. So there's, there's, you know, but if it's different fromthe way it was a year ago, it doesn't have to be bad. You know,maybe there's some differences that you like more than othersor dislike more than Others. But the way we think aboutit, the words we use around it, the words and how we talk aboutit to the people around us, all of those things have ahuge, huge impact on how wewill feel those things, on how our body will react tothose things. I actually have had people say to me that on the days oftheir accidents they used to just crawl up in a ball inbed and, or hide in a closet and just be sad andmiserable. But when they started reframing to those daysas their unbreakable days, they started going out and celebrating.They started having, you know, like ice cream and parties andjust making those days special. And all it was isa reframing. One of the things I always
Joanne Lockwoodhost
reflect on is that when you're trying to sort your life out,you've collected so much baggage over the years. You know, the responsibilities, thethings, stuff you have in your life. But when it comes to making decisions,you think, well, what can I get rid of, what can I lose? It's verydifficult to sort of peel bits away because they're kind of part of what you'vegot. But when you have, when you start from nothing, you canthen choose what to bring on. What luggage do I want to now bring onmy journey and just shed everything and say, right, I guessyou had a day zero sort of effectwhere you had nothing because you were just millimetres awayfrom having dying guess or moments away from dying. So you,you've been able to re. Establish your journey of lifewith stuff that's important. Yeah, I mean the, the traumas I think for,
Naseem Rochetteguest
for all of us are a demarcation point. You know, there's definitely likelife before, you know, and life after. But,but I will say and something that I, you know, I talk about when Ido coaching or keynotes is, you know,there's so much power in those tough moments.There's so much we learn and grow from that most of usdon't spend any time thinking about because tough momentsalways seem like downers. Let's not talk about those downers,let's put em in the closet and you know, never talk about them again.But when we, we actually take some time toboth appreciate and hey, I've navigated somethingthat was really challenging. I did that, you know, myfamily did that, my friends helped me through that. Yeah, that was really,that was really great that we, we were able to, tonavigate that tough moment. And believe me, it doesn't mean the tough moment wasn'ttough. You know, I lost my parents a couple of years ago. There's nothingjoyful about me losing my parents. But are there thingsin ways that I've grown that I can appreciate? Absolutely. Beingrun over is obviously a tough moment. Everybody has tough moments. But if youstop and you think, well, what did I learn from that?You're again, changing it from baggage to almostbadges, you know, that. That you can feel proud of. Bit like being a girl
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Guide again and getting your cooking badge or your sewing badge or something.
Naseem Rochetteguest
I never got any of those. I was camp cook once. You know,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I got camp cook badge, chicken in a pot. Ithink it was, I think, something very simple. I was only 10, I think. Yeah,I was quite happy with that. So when you're navigatingthe world now, as well as coaching others, how do you findyourself approaching these bigcrossroads, these big decision points in your life now? How do you approach thingsdifferently? You know, for me, joy is one of my
Naseem Rochetteguest
guiding principles. And I think about, you know, does it. Does it bring me joyor does it bring me stress? And if it's bringing me stress,you know, and it's a situation that I want to stay in,you know, then we need to break down. Why is it bringing me stress? And,you know, if it's a situation that's bringing you stress also, you have toask yourself, is it a situation you can get out of and what's the costof getting out of it? And I. So that's how I.I often, you know, work with people. I mean, what are theirguiding principles? Mine is joy. And so. So what are,you know, what are the things that you wantto feel on a. On a daily basis?And, you know, once, you know, once we can figure out some idea of that,it's. How do we reach that state more often? Are you less tolerant of
Joanne Lockwoodhost
people? More tolerant of people? Now, let's see. I.
Naseem Rochetteguest
I don't. That's a good question. I mean, honestly, my kids like to call mea little judgy, but I'm. Just thinking in terms of, you know, what
Joanne Lockwoodhost
you're saying about joy, and it's not bringing you joy, it's bringing you stress. Doyou. Do you apply that principle to relationships where you think, hang on a minute.You are not bringing me joy in this relationship. We. We are not compatible anymore.I'm out. Yeah. You know, I. I don't know that I'm. I.
Naseem Rochetteguest
I definitely direct my life towards the joy. I don't know that I'd say. I'mlike, I try to, as. As we talked about earlier, accept People where they are,and if they're in a place that isn't right for me,then I'll just try to spend less time with them. But when the time that
Naseem Rochetteguest
I spend with them, I try to be as giving and kind andtolerant, you know, as I can be. Because, you know, as we. We've talked about,people feeling connected is soimportant and sometimes justaccepting that if we build a better connection,the engagement or relationship might. Might evolveand drastically improve. You know, sometimes I get, you know, I'll hearpeople, you know, sometimes people are grumpy, you know, and I'll. For instance, youknow, I try not to judge someone in that moment, you know, but think aboutwhat. Why are they in that state? You know, just like you had talked aboutearlier, meeting them where they are. So I try to be tolerant in thatway and giving them more grace and kindness. So maybe I'mless, you know, when something someone said to me a yearafter the accident was, they. They told me that I was. Before the accident, Iwas an unsympathetic character that, you know, I kind of hadit put together and, you know, I look like it was easy and, you know,not that any of it was, but I was proud of that. You
Joanne Lockwoodhost
had a Persona. Yeah. And I shit together. Persona sort of thing.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Yes, exactly. You know, and so now I try to make memore vulnerable so that, you know,other people that I can be more accepting and openand inclusive to people connecting.Because often the people that are. I might have been judgy aboutare just feeling alone. That must be part of your superpower,
Joanne Lockwoodhost
which is radiating joyful energy. So if you goin with a frown, that's not radiating joyful energy, is it? So myapproach is I tend to turn the volume down on people thatdon't bring me joy. There's a phrase, hang out with radiators,not drains. Drains will steal your energy. I'm stealing that.Dementors from Harry Potter. They suck the energy out of you. Soon social media, what I do is I unfollow somebody. If I don't want tohear from them, I don't go into their post and tell them what Ithink. I just turn the volume down to unfollow. That way, if they want tokeep following me, they want to still see me, they want to still get valuefrom that relationship, that's fine. And if they. They bump into me, I'm still there.And so I think blocking and unfriending and things like that are very.They're very proactive. States to get people out of your life. Turn the volume down.Your noise doesn't bring me joy. That's fine, doesn't matter. It brings other peoplejoy. That's up to them. So, yeah, turn the volume down.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Do that too. And actually, speaking of social media, you know, one of the thingsthat I think is important to talkabout now and is that, like, you know, I talked to my, you know, mykids are teenagers and in college or kind of adult kids, but, you know, whenpeople are always posting just like, oh, my life is so greatand perfect, you know, they don't. I think people don't realisethey're making themselves unsympathetic characters and they'relosing connection with people, you know, and I think, you know,so one of the things that I do often in my talks is also tryto remind people that, you know, if you're not showing the whole pictureor sharing the whole picture, you're. You'relosing out on the joy of connections. I think
Joanne Lockwoodhost
when you think you talk about influencers and people that like that, and it hasto be authentic, authentic vulnerability, not plasticor fake Barbie vulnerability. It's like, I'm having a really badday. Everything's really awful today. And if you're not careful, you're trying to use thatdeliberate to, to bring people in with, you know, if you really are having abad day, be honest. Yeah, yeah,
Naseem Rochetteguest
yeah. So you can say something like, yeah, it's. It's atough day. Send me your good energy, you know?
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah. Why? Yeah, why? Just sometimes you leave it hanging, don't you?I'm having a really bad one today. What is it? What is it? What isit? Everyone keen to find out, you know. Oh, no, I can't say. Well, ifyou can't say, why tell me in the first place? If your dog died, tellus your dog died, you know, and then we'll go, oh, my lovely picture. Let'sdo that. Or if you haven't had kids, have messed up, or if you've beenrun over three times, just get it out. There, get it out there.
Naseem Rochetteguest
Or, you know, just share it with people. The other question I've been keen to
Joanne Lockwoodhost
ask you is, obviously this had a huge, big,traumatic. At the time you were injured, you had organs thatwere crushed and nerve injuries and things likethat. How long did it take you to get to a point where you feltnormal again, whatever that may mean? I don't. I don't know what normal means, butkind of back, back to a. I'm. I'm Good enough now. When,
Naseem Rochetteguest
when the accident first happened and I found out I didn't break any bones.And I'm sorry about all that beeping. I. I actually said to myhusband, I said, call my boss and tell him I'll be back to work onThursday. This was a Monday. Cause I was like, if I didn't break anybones, you know, I'm sure I can go back to. Yeah, I'm just faking it
Joanne Lockwoodhost
otherwise, aren't I? Just faking it. That's exactly right. Like, yeah, I
Naseem Rochetteguest
didn't give myself any, you know, any grace. Obviously. I did not go back towork on Thursday. And it took me a long, you know, therecovery was very long. But myengagement back into my old life was.Was quick, maybe too quick. So I went back to work aftereight weeks, you know, against doctor's orders. AndI just felt like I needed to, like you said, feel like I wanted tofeel normal. And for me, that was getting back to work and, youknow, earning and supporting my family. And my. Actually mybabysitter said the day that I went back to work, my kidswere like different kids because they thought life would never be the same again.However, I went back to work and it was much too soon andI didn't have the physical or mental energy like I. Iwould still needed to sleep 16 hours, days. And so unfortunately, Igave my energy to work and then I had nothing for myfamily. And that probably took. And so, you know, I was still. And I wasstill a very unpredictable person. You know, I hadn't. It took me a long timeto regulate my emotions. You know, it probably. I would say it was like ayear and a half before I felt normal,but it wasn't the same. You know, it was a new normal.And you know, even now, I mean, I have, you know, I have a,you know, bad knee, I have, you know, back pain, neckpain, they're issues. You know, I can't bear music in multiplerooms. You know, I'm. Lots of sensitivities because of my brain injury,but that is my new normal. And so I don't think about thosethings. You know, it's just my new normal. And every day is.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It's more normal. It just who you are. And you put up a legacy.You now got history of who you are now. Yes. And I, you know, and
Naseem Rochetteguest
I don't. And I'm not judging myself that I'm not that person that I wasbefore. You know, I don't juggle like, I used to be a master of chaosand, you know, juggling a hundred things, you know, withloud, like, you know, even like clubbing at 3 o' clock in the morning, loudconcerts, like, I loved all that extra stimulation. Ican't tolerate or bear that anymore. But, you know, that's okay becauseI'm appreciating different things, you know, and I'll brag for a minute and that,you know, much to my surprise, when I went back to work, I thoughtI was never going to be as good as I used to be because Ican't solve problems in the same way. But itturns out the new ways in which I solve problems and delve into thingshas been more successful for me. You know, with a traumaticbrain injury, I've. I've actually, you know, been better ableto serve my teams and my clients. So apart from Joy.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Apart from Joy, what is the one thing that you're most proudof about you? Now that wouldn't haveoccurred had it not been for Unbreakable Day? I think it's.
Naseem Rochetteguest
It's really my ability to share what I thought was weakness,to share struggle and journey and understandwhat it feels like and how to relateto people when they're going through something tough, you know, for instance,like, you know, when. When someone goes through a death, you know, or a trauma,I think many people are very uncomfortable with, you know, what do you say?How do you respond, how do you act? Because ofthese experiences and because I think I've taken the time toexplore what I've learned and how I've changed, Iam. I don't feel as awkward, you know, in those moments, Ican. I know that, you know, when somebody dies, like my saying I'm sorry aboutyour loss isn't bringing it up because they're thinking about it all the time.You know, I know they're. And they appreciate that warmth and that connection.I know that now that when somebody's in trauma, asking themhow they are is a really tough question because they don't knowhow they are and they don't want to lie to you and they don't wantto pretend everything's fine. And so you're. You're making them do all this work internally.Whereas if I just say I'm thinking about you, I'm here for you. Youknow, a statement, not a question, I make it easier on them.So, you know, I think the other thing, you know, that's just. Just how torelate to people in those tough moments. You know, I'm. I'mlucky that I can. A fantastic conversation and
Joanne Lockwoodhost
in a way, I'm really pleased. I didn't do too much research and I heardthe storey at the same time as you listening. Yougot that kind of. Whoa. And I sat here and you said my face wasa picture. I was literally stunned into sort of silence as Iwas picturing June Osborne in Handmaid's Tale beingrun over by the red rv, which I'd now ruined. Spoiler. Now I've got to
Naseem Rochetteguest
go. There you go. Watch it. How
Joanne Lockwoodhost
can people get hold of you? Tell us about your book. Tell us about yourwebsite and everything. Yeah, so my book is called the
Naseem Rochetteguest
Unexpected Benefits Of Being Run Over. You can pretty much get it, youknow, wherever books are sold or order. It certainly is onAmazon. And on Amazon, you can also get my audible, which is metelling the storey. So if you want to, you know, want to hear itand, you know, I've got a website, Naseem rochette.com where you canreach out if you, you know, you're interested in coaching or, you know,speaking or, you know, or LinkedIn. I'd love to say that I post a loton social and share wisdom, but I'm not good atthat yet, so. So you can buy my book on Amazon orreach out on Naseem Rochette.com. Thank you so much. It's been
Joanne Lockwoodhost
amazing. Oh, thank you, Jo. Thanks, everybody, for listening.Bye. As we bringthis conversation to a close, I want to express my deepestgratitude to you, our listener, for lending your earand heart to the cause of inclusion.Today's discussion struck a chord. Consider subscribing toInclusion Bites and become part of our ever growing communitydriving real change. Share this journey with friends, family andcolleagues. Let's amplify the voices that matter.Got thoughts, storeys or a vision to share? I'm allears. Reach out tojo.lockwood@seechangehappen.co.ukand let's make your voice heard. Until next time, this
Joanne Lockwoodhost
is Joanne Lockwood signing off with a promise to return withmore enriching narratives that challenge, inspire andunite us all. Here's to fostering a more inclusive world oneepisode at a time. Catch you on the next bite.
In this powerful episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood is joined by Naseem Rochette to explore the profound impact of reframing adversity into opportunities for growth and connection. Naseem recounts the harrowing experience of being run over by a car three times and the resulting journey through trauma, resilience, and transformation. Their conversation delves deep into the emotional realities faced in the aftermath of life-changing events—from the disorienting lack of remorse from others, to the necessity of accepting help, and the discovery that energy, whether positive or negative, shapes both one’s perception and the reactions of those around us. Joanne and Naseem discuss the significance of ‘Unbreakable Day’, choosing joy as a principle, and the challenges of staying centred on kindness and optimism in a fragmented world.
Naseem is an award-winning author, renowned keynote speaker, and advocate for joy who helps others reframe their stories and embrace personal growth during life’s toughest moments. Rooted in her Indian heritage and shaped by a childhood of both insecurity and festivity, Naseem’s journey spans corporate experience at Microsoft, extensive recovery from significant trauma, and the authorship of ‘The Unexpected Benefits of Being Run Over’. She brings an authentic voice, blending vulnerability with optimism, and now supports individuals through coaching, speaking, and candid storytelling—demonstrating that openness about struggle builds deeper connections and that reframing adversity can lead to renewed strength and self-acceptance.
Joanne and Naseem reflect on the transformative power of shifting perspective, the myth of instant resilience, and the importance of building inclusive, meaningful relationships—especially in times of crisis. They highlight the need to allow space for difficult emotions, to show grace to oneself and others, and to celebrate not only large achievements but also the incremental steps towards healing and connection.
The key takeaway from this episode is that cultivating joyful energy and embracing vulnerability enables genuine inclusion and belonging. Listeners will discover practical wisdom on reframing traumatic experiences, supporting others through adversity, and prioritising connection over perfection. This episode is an essential listen for anyone seeking hope, resilience, and inspiration to navigate life’s challenges with an unbreakable spirit.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Inclusion Bites, SEE Change Happen Ltd or Joanne Lockwood. This episode is shared for general interest and discussion; we accept no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of any statements made.
