Joanne Lockwoodhost
Hello everyone my name is Joanne lockwood and I'm your host for the inclusion bytes podcast in this series I have interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation around the subject of inclusion belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive.Like to join me in the future then please do drop me line to Joe dot lockwoodd and see change happen dot code it uk that's it's double e change happen dot cola uk you can catch up with all of the previous shows on itunes spotify and the usual places so plug any headphones gravity caf. Let's get going today is episode 50 1 with the title peeling back our layers to uncover our essence and I have the absolute honor and privilege to be joined by Michelle millsporter michelle describes herself as a specialness in human communication and behavior. When I asked Michelle to describe her superpower. She said she is being able to see the potential in people and help them align to it. Michel is known as the people reader hello michelle welcome to the show.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Hello Joanne I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Oh.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, it's a pleasure. We've been talking about having this conversation for for for months and finally please we managed to get get to time together. So Michelle we were talking before I press the record button in the in the green room Beforehand we'll talk about essence so boy. Tell me about peeling back our layers to uncover our essence What do you mean by that.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Which sounds incredibly painful. Doesn't it Joanne but I promise it's really not um, it's something that I came across I thought that I knew about human behavior and I thought was quite good at all that stuff when i. Was in a serious amount of adversity I was caught in the boxing day tsunami and it was the aftermath of that that I suddenly realized that I didn't know as much as I thought and the reason that I realized that was because people that I knew. Were doing things that I didn't expect them to do and behaving in different ways and I realized they were being driven by something that I wasn't necessarily aware of and that's it took me a very long time to actually research it and. Dig deep and and try and work backwards and find out what this this is um and it it literally took years and years for me to realize that what I'm talking about is our core driving forces and that is subconscious so when I talk about peeling um our layers back. What I'm talking about is actually getting to the subconscious and finding out what truly drives people and that's where our essence lies. Joanne.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It's fascinating so you are actually in the the ground zero of the tsunami back in was it nineteen no 2004 wasn't it. Yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
It was 2004, boxing day 2004 and yes we were in Sri Lanka I was over in Sri Lanka with a team of um of people from our dive Center. Our local dive center and there were 14 of us and we went over to Sri Lanka together and we were caught smack bank in the middle of it. And I I realize now and you always see clearly with hindsight don't you and what I realize is it's it's in those spikes of adversity that we see the true potential of humanity and then massive learning lessons. Huge lessons. And so you know when I got back after the tsunami. Um I Just thought this is too big for me to not make it my priority So you know I kind of turned my back on my very successful business and everything else that I'd been doing and completely changed the direction of my life. To try and understand and make sense of what I've learned and then turn it into lessons for other people so that they could have the benefit of those lessons without having to go through the kind of horrendous lessons that that we've been through.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So what was 1 of the the key things that surprised you about yourself so presumably the first person you observe is yourself isn't it you and how you what? what? layers of onion did you have that you didn't realize you had.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Oh my gosh. Do you know what? I think the first thing I did now let's imagine I'm on the third floor of my hotel room and I'm asleep and we can hear what sounds like a storm outside now I've already been up for breakfast I've gone back for a kip you know, but. We knew that it was a beautiful day so we can't work out why it sounds like there's a storm outside we can hear this gushing water and it sounds like torrential rain. So Stewart gets up and he pulls the curtain back. And he immediately says. Um I think you'd better, come and look at this and I could tell from his voice that something was wrong. So I shot out of bed and I saw looked out the window and saw that we were surrounded by water now this is the key thing Joe the first thing I did was I went. Wow and I grabbed my video camera now I really battle with that because I grabbed my video camera and I started pointing it out the window trying to capture this amazing and scary and. And exciting thing and all of these emotions came up and then I tried to justify having a video camera in my hands by saying I'm recording this in case, the owner of the dive sentence needs this as evidence for his insurance or whatever and as i. As I kind of came to within split seconds my thought then was who can I help who needs help and I was really embarrassed that that wasn't the first thought that my first thought was wow this is incredible I've got to capture it on camera actually it wasn't until. More than 10 years later that I created my own analysis that captures these things that I understand my main driving force is this ability to see awe and wonder in nearly everything and it's kind of justified it for me. Should I have thought of who I can help first know what we have to do is we have to understand who we truly are and we have to be at peace with that. So if my first action was to grab a video camera and tape it just accept that your second. Um, reaction was to to wonder if anyone needed help that's good. That's good enough to be second best. So I stopped beating myself up as soon as I understood what that was all about and it it really did take me to design this analysis tool to be able to forgive myself for that.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm just trying to imagine opening those curtains and looking out the window and I can I I can always feel as you as you said you you were in the moment you went you, you became a reporter you were reporting on something that was. Unusual you're reacting to it in that way. It's only after it permeated into your into your thoughts. You became a responder so you went from reported to responder quite quickly. But the first into was wow this is different I've never seen anything nice before um I don't know if I see anything again. Um I don't know.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Um, yeah, exactly yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
At that point the first moment you didn't feel in danger. You didn't perceive other people in danger it only when maybe it's soaked in that the true reality of what happened because otherwise it just looked like ah a bit of a flood maybe ah a big opera.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Well yeah I mean we were we were 30 foot underwater by then so it was a ah pretty serious flood and you know the dive center was covered the the roof was being carried off by the water. We couldn't see anything as far as the eye could see apart from water even inland it was just horrific.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Ships being banged into the side of the hotel I mean it was you know it was really bizarre. But I think the feelings are something that I battled with you know what do I feel I feel horror I feel shock I feel excitement I feel or I feel all of these things and it's a mixture of emotions and you know what? jema. I recognize it when I see the headline of news or the headlines in a paper I sometimes feel excitement first and that used to repulse me if I see this horrific and there was something horrendous that happened on the news this morning. Several people have been killed. Like the first reaction. Oh my gosh people have been killed and it's a mixture of whether is that that's horrific. But it's also exciting and I don't want that to come across in the wrong way. But if we start overly trying to justify our feelings. You know we we are not true to ourselves. That is a thing it is a thing and that's why reporters use headlines to drag people in really quickly so to fight who we naturally are is the wrong thing to do to understand it and work with it is the right thing to do.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So I remember so I remember that boxing day I was at my brother's with my 2 young children. My wife ah with my brother his wife and his 2 young children I remember sitting now on boxing day watching this unfold and and it needed. The reporter on the ground who had that footage this is I mean this is before the level of communication we got now with our phones I mean 2004 four is what a for 17 years ago some seventeen years ago is this year but we think of.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
16 seven? Yeah um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Technology now technology but didn't Exist. We didn't have kind of the mobile phones we did but didn't have the internet connections. We did. So yeah I think it was important to to see that early reporting because how could I as someone so remote, get a feeling for the devastation and I then became very involved in. Fundraising activities to send money out to as you say sri lanka india and and other affected places through the network I was a member at the time but we as though that footage I think that motivated the public around the world. So it was essential to have people report on it. But that's really interesting that you.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Ah I'm gonna yeah but I'm I'm just gonna jump in I Sorry to interrupt you joan. But I just I feel so passionate about this when you're in it how anyone holding a camera is the most disrespectful thing that you can do so there's a real.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
You had a different perspective.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Dilemma yes I grabbed the camera but then immediately threw the camera down I literally and my camera footage is in my showwheel. There's literally about 3 seconds of footage before I throw that camera down. Um, um, every time anyone approached us with a video camera. It felt so disrespectful people here were losing their lives and anyone that came to us at in Reporter mode. We were telling them to leave us alone and it nearly came to fist fights. You know? So. There's such passion.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
But Facebook yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
In that situation that the reporter may be thinking I've got to let the rest of the world see this I've got to let them understand and help but actually when you're in the situation. The last thing you want to see is a camera being pointed in your face.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I I do agree I think I'd like to think my first reaction wouldn't be to get my camera out I mean I've been in situations and my camera when my phone or my camera has come out my pocket because I'm so busy in the situation but nothing nothing obviously like you've experienced. But yeah, how did your husband. What was what was your husband. Default kind of core value that popped out.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
My Husband is very practical, um, and his his fault I mean he has Utilitarian in my words, his core driving force is Utilitarian which is actually extremely practical so he actually went into practicality Mode. So in That. Blitz Second everything in our life turned upside down so anything that had any value. Any monetary value was valueless so we started and he got it I mean he kind of got quite angry in terms of the way that he delivers you know? so. He gets quite in quite Um, What's the word directive in his instructions if you know what I mean but I understand where that comes from that's all about let's do this. Let's let's be practical so we found ourselves packing things that we could barter With. Um, in 1 rucksacck you know and it wasn't any of the expensive stuff like the video equipment or the cameras or any of that expensive stuff that was now redundant instead we were using the duty-free fags that we picked up and stuff like that because those were more Valuable. We could barter with those if we needed to get out or whatever. These are things that we can barter with whereas things that have a lot of financial attachment to them just don't seem to have any any relevance anymore. So he went into full-on practical mode dress incorrectly finding some sturdy. You know some sturdy shoes of going out and scouting to find out what the escape rooms were going to be a hundred percent practical and if you do his essence analysis Now you will see that his highest driving force is still very very much that practical utilitarian.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
As shown I Just try it how I might react because I could I could see a bit of the practicality kicking in with me but it be if if I was my wife I think my default would be supportive of her because I know that she would be extremely vulnerable in that situation. And need a lot of support to help her focus I think it probably a good but to focus on what needs to happen rather than being constrained by fear if you like so I I just want need to be there for her give strength.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
um yeah um yeah um I think that you've hit the nadle on the head there Joanne because the reason I created this analysis is that we don't know how we're going to behave in that situation. You do not know how you're going to behave in that situation until that situation happens.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
No.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
What I can show people with this analysis is how they are going to um, react and I guarantee it is proven correct every single time that I've tried it. It's proven correct. So I'm so thrilled with what I've created that you know I just.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
A.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
I felt that I needed to do this but we never know how we're going to react and and we might think that we've got an idea and we might think we have an idea of how however the half is going to act as well. But when that doesn't happen that can be the breakdown of the entire relationship and I've seen it. I've seen it happen with 2 people that were only just married. They hadn't been married long. Um and they were each other's world. But the way they reacted in that adversity. It just threw them apart. Um, they never ever ever recovered. They ended up ended up divorcing because they just couldn't understand that your initial reaction in that situation is not the be all and end or you can't judge someone by the way they react. That's their Subconscious. You've got to understand it and work with it. But they but they never did and and you know they fell apart.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, ah suppose you see hollywood playing out that kind of storyline in the movies isn't that you 2 people find love through the adversity and that the way they both respond is that I'm not trying to trivialize what you're doing but that's kind of like the emotions we're playing on them. We don't know who we are. Until we get put in a situation where that that inner south that essence surface itself then we have to move out of our standard normal how we behave in the world to how we behave in a verse or in a unexplained situation.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, we can't we can't help it. You know all we can do is understand it and work with it and and that's exactly I know that you've seen my keynote so you will you'll remember hopefully if I did a good job. Um, that there is a love story attached to my story because I had been with Stewart for 12 years and I didn't know if I could trust him the truth was you know I didn't know whether he would be there for me if I really needed it and that was based on certain evidence. You know of things that had happened in the past um and you know when I had a horrendous miscarriage. You know he. It was a shock to both of us and and you know when he was told he might as well leave the hospital because it's and thing he could do all I saw was a line of smoke and um, like I couldn't get hold of him and because of that I didn't understand would I be able to count him if I needed him and actually on the very night. Of the tsunami something happened when the tsunami came again and I watched that man put my life before his and it was in that moment where I suddenly saw straight through to the core of who he was and I suddenly understood. Yes, if I need him. He's gonna be there now. I can I understood that and we agreed that if we got out of this alive. We were going to do it. We were going to get married and you know and and be together forever and luckily that's exactly what happened Um, and I I love him dearly and I can look back now that I know him. I can look back to things that have happened and when we have that miscarriage understand that he was in as much emotional turmoil and shock as I was so he was going through his own stuff. It wasn't that he wasn't there for me so that test has been put to us and the beauty of that is that. The the most wonderful love story came out of it. Absolutely.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So as your well that's that's wonderful I mean that that's truly truly wonderful and I'm so pleased that you've you found? You're together forever and that's that is so so special and I know that my wife and I have been through some adversity and some challenges in our lives. And we hold that be together forever as our as our kind of mantra that we we ask each other is that still how we feel and that's that's what we keep going back to that because all problems are surmountable if that's your goal You just got to somehow put the put the the day-to-day Challenges aside. Ah, focus on the big object which is being together forever. Yeah, that kind of like the Disney up cartoon isn't it where you have you grow old in rocking chairs and you're just there until the end of days and then hopefully pass together. It's kind of our our view of the World. So How did you find your.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
For.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Your essence evolved over the course of this significant tragedy of events going on so you must have you must have gone from 1 mode to another mode over the course of that emotions must be coming out must have been must been different the adrenaline subsides. Got different needs as you as you grow So you you must have seen. Ah how you did you explore in your program here. How some of some of these essences are needs driven and then how then the other ones surface when they're kind of after master driven if you like.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Think it was. It's it's a little bit like being an archaeologist Joe because initially I thought I've got to learn about human behavior I've got to learn more about human behavior and so I dived into becoming a behavior profiler. Um, and learning about disc in particular as as you know, a measure of people's behavior and how they act and lots of other ones besides and I was learning how we behave how we behave how we change our behavior how we act in certain circumstances. But I kept needing to dig further I wanted to know more than the how I wanted to know the why and nothing could give me the why so I kept digging and digging and digging and it was only when I came across the understanding of core values that I suddenly realized ah. I think I've hit the y what are core values and I don't use the term core values I use the term core driving forces and the reason that I use that term is because core values mean so many different things to different people and I think the reason that i. Ah, really pleased to talk about this on your show is because this is a real cause for concern when we're talking about diversity and inclusion because 1 of the areas where we fail to be diverse and inclusive is when somebody has different core values. She says with the fingers in the air. Than ours. We think that if people don't agree with their core values and that's it. They're enemies of ours or they don't they don't they're an enemy of my core values because they have different core values and that is the most ridiculous concept and so I don't call it core values. If I walk into an organization Joe and say do you understand the core values of your people they will say yes, they'll say yes I know our core values because it's up there and they point to the mission statement on the wall. No, that's not what I'm talking about when you talk about core values. You know they talk about so many different things that are really not. That subconscious driver. So what I'm getting at is what I call the core driving forces of each human being individually.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So yeah, and I but I'm working with organizations your part of this forms the the magic of belongingness where your your true values have an alignment the organization. So if you are a. An environment. It's you passionate about climate change about Sustainability. You will not feel that align with an organization and that sense of belonging where they don't at least share that as a long-term mission and I appreciate. It's subtly different to what you're saying there. But there's been alignment.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Of.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Some some if you're working for a polluter and you're an environmentalist. There's going to be a disconnect So at some point there Maybe you need to find a different role or the organizations. Not you so there are there are some values fit that may be are different to maybe the the essence that were talking about.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, so but I think for me fundamentally you have to fill an alignment with the patch and the purpose of the organization and then you feel belonging. But I agree what you're saying in terms of the different values that you may have. May not necessarily overlap completely with others around you.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
They don't and and let me let me explain exactly what we're talking about here because now we've got to the crux of it what we're talking about could be explained as core values. But actually what you're talking about is an alignment with the company's mission with what the company stands for. That doesn't have anything to do with that personal essence and driving force and this is where we fall apart because people employers and recruiters and leaders will often say unless you share my values I don't want you in my business. Actually we talk about 2 different things what they're saying is unless you share my mission and unless you share my ethics I don't want you in the business. That's fine, but you can still have different core essences and the excuse. The the thing that I draw from is my own personal experiences. Joanne. So I always talk about me and Stewart stuewart and I have been together for almost 30 years now and I've never been in a job for more than 30 years so it is a source of you know of of information for me and I look at our relationship and if you look at our essence we are completely opposite to each other. So how then can it work. How can we have such a successful marriage work together in Business. So well be so complimentary to each other and be each other's better half if if it's true that you have to share people's values in order to get on. Is bollocks you know because if you share your essence then it just makes you flock together. You just have this um, this kind of magnetism towards people that share your core driving forces but you don't have to share them in order to get on. You can have completely different ones and still understand how to fit together like Jigsaw pieces. It can be extremely complimentary.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I completely agree with that. So I think it's important sometimes to have some difference between you the difference that complements difference that ads so you become more than 1 you become you become 5 instead of just 2
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yes, you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Because of all these differences. Ah, and I think what we end up doing is we're if we're too similar then maybe we don't have I don't know. Maybe maybe there's more room for disagreement if we're too aligned and we will share different opinions on our on our similarities if you like because we're completely different. We can recognize how we can support each other at different times. And ah and create create common interest that we we both enjoy in a different way and I know my I know my wife for example is ah is a passionate Christmas person whereas and she loves she loves gifting. She loves um.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Exactly yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Rapping. She loves the whole idea of christmas and I'm I'm not anti-christmas I'm just not passionate about it the same way she is I take joy is seeing her happiness of of giving and being in that environment and it warms my heart to see her happy in that way. So I don't have to share her passion. I can I can share the happiness that she has out of her passion and the same way she knows that I do things that I'm passionate about and get happiness and she's there supporting me doing what I do even though it's not what she does so I completely agree. We don't have to have the same things that we we value or do or passionate about but we just want to but what we are. Core on is is is is loving each other for the enjoy we get out of what we do as individuals. Yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Exactly and I think in an organization if you fill your organization with people that share your core driving forces that might be very lovely but where do you grow because when you have people with different core driving forces. That's what is your sanity. You know Stewart is my sanity and we're each other's y and yang in a way you know here's my sanity and virtue that in certain situations and arm his um but if you look at our report, we're also each other's stressors. So the first time we looked at the his own essence report he looked at his list of stressors and said my god Michelle it's you you know. So so there is there is the that element of it. But if you surround yourself with people with a mix of driving forces what you get is growth in equal areas. So it's like dropping water into a puddle and watching it expand um. And watching that circumference expand on all areas at once. Um, if you only have people with the same core driving forces as you it will only expand in 1 way so you'll get ah you'll get a drip effect rather than the puddle growing and growing evenly. So that's. i' full of these flipping analogies aren't I Joanne but I like seeing things in visual terms and ask what works for me.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Now I'm ah I'm a very visual person as well I like to see um the bigger picture. the the emotions all the all the factors in there. So now you're talking. Ah you're talking you share because some of the values I hold dear to me as well which is ah. Air to project and see bigger pictures this way. So no, absolutely fantastic. Um I notice whore in the ah ref I was in the ah raf when I left school for a few brief years. Yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yes, me too I only did 5 years I joined the ah raf on notice engagement. So I was I always had 1 foot in a one foot out so rather than having to sign up for 12 years you can sign up and after your training once you done eighteen months at any point in time you can put in eighteen months notice or. Whatever it is so that was um, we got paid less to have that option. But I'm glad I did because when I joined the forces I had a very very strict upbringing. Um, and I was very sheltered very used to doing exactly what my dad told me to do. So for me, the forces was easy. Everyone else was struggling with the discipline I thought there was a walk in the park what you want about this is freedom and I loved it and I really excelled and they actually made me see me woman during my training in front of a whole troop of people that were all older than me. Um, but. When my personality started to come out I realized I'm possibly the last person you want in the forces I'm so maverick I'm so disruptive and so naughty probably not the person to be in the forces. So I decided to get out and go my own way. What about you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah I think that was the problem that I had I was a bit too Naughty. Um I became incompatible I did 3 years as ah, ah, an apprentice technician studying radar radio communications so working on fast jets and. And slow propellers and those other things so radar radio those days. It's all valves and high voltage radar systems in a stock that you do.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
But but you just you've just said something there that makes me think we've got something even more in common. So if you were anything to do with Gris we'd have been posted at ah Raf Henlo Both of us were you ever a hem loan you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Now I did my training at Aria for cosfords which near Wohampton and I didn't get any further this to say that I wasn't compatible. Um I wasn't the person they were looking for. So yeah I left just at the end of my training I didn't get.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
2Right? If that. Yeah the reason I say that is because Rf henlow has the Grand Radio installation unit. So if you carried forward in your trade. You probably would have been posted the henlow which is where I bosed So who knows we might across each other earlier.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ice.Ah, but ah I think I was more the air side. So I think I was but my first posting would have been had I had I escaped training into ah raf at Morgan down in in Newki that would have been my that would been my prize on.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, know it. Beautiful. Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Was it Nimrod's now what were the the early 1 the the a wax stuff the early warning. So I think it was nimmods yeah, that would have been my posting. But yeah, that was I we had our Fortieth anniversary reunion of joining the other week so 40 years ago nineteen eighty 1 I joined and that was a. Ah, quite a while ago for me. It said if my age.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah I think i' your in 85 so not not not dissimilar times.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And no, um, this is an inclusion podcast. So I look back at the changes that have occurred in the falses. It's still illegal to be alggbtq plus divorces in those in those days people were ah, un ceremoniously booted out Dis disgracefully.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
In prison before they left and um I'm pleased to see that the yeah certainly air forces in the Uk have ah have recognized that that wasn't fair and I repatriated people's medals and and an honor to people that were that were forced out.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
And.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It became to these year 2 thousand nine to nine 2000 where it became um for what I better were allowed to be queer in the forces and I know know many friends who are still serving who are trans openly trans both transmasculine and trans feminine and non-binary people. And I know that the dni teams in the ah in the forces both the army and navy and air force are highly proactive in in terms of our tput inclusion so that makes me completely happy and yeah and mean progressive. Yeah yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
It's moved on a long way. Have there? Yeah, and and I I look back to when I joined and you know women weren't allowed to fly. They said 1 of the reasons was that it did something horrendous to your womb. You know which is ridiculous and also if you got pregnant then you you were. You were given a choice you either? um, get get rid of the offending article. Um, or you leave the forces 1 or the other all of those things have changed Having said that back in one eighty five computers were the size of a room. So yeah, we are old. Um, but but.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And we were yeah no I remember those days as well. The main computer was in a a kind of ah a big trailer type thing parked up next to it next to a heart and yeah, that was the computer and yeah, those those days are definitely different and the computers on the on the air on the.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
On.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, the fighter Jets You think Well, how do they ever ever take off let lo land. But yeah, it was quite clever with just basic electronics and just a simple logic about how the ah the terrain following radar The yeah ah identification friend or fa all this consistent worked. They were very clever without any real.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
On.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Advanced technology in them or by our standards today I guess to advanced in those days did did you you still harbor back some of the discipline it gave you I mean 1 of the things I always credit the forces with is the I'm still quite compliant in Nature. Although. And quite I'm rebellious compliant I don't i' argumentative compliant I'm kind of rebellious in a subtle more subtle way I mean I love rules I just don't like following them so that's my kind of rebellious compliance but I like that to be a rule base that I know that I know that I fit into somehow.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
I don't know I can't say the same for me Joanne I am I'm not very good with rules at all. Um, so I think the thing that I learned most about in the air force was in my basic training and I used to you'll you'll relate to this. Remember being on amiga you know the final kind of big push and you're camping out and you're you know you're running through the countryside with Jerry cans on your back and all sorts of things and you know and and you can just see the headlines in the newspaper flash up. You know. W raf pushed Beyond her limits has a heart attack in the middle of the blazing sunshine and I can see these headlines flashing up in the paper thinking what are they doing to me I am going to die any second and they go come on mills you'll get a beasting if you don't get back and actually when you complete it. The love you have for the people that beasted you through it because they broke through that boundary. They showed you that your body can do far more than you ever thought. They show you that your mind can do far more than you ever thought possible that I will never forget and always be grateful.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And I was actually taken off the mountain somewhere in waless in the snow by an ambulance and and ah and ah I think probably ah a jeep type thing rescue me off this mountain because 1 1 of our 1 of our group was. For whatever reason exhibited some sort of signs of hypothermia started sort of being listless and and disorientated so what the the commanding officer decided to do was was put this person in a sleeping bag and survival bag and then made everybody else stand around and look at them so we had nothing else to do. We weren't. We weren't keeping warm so 1 by 1 we all started feeling cold wet miserable demotivities and sort of and of a sudden so I found myself feeling a bit kind of like out of it. So suddenly I'm in this im in a sa survivical bag in the back of this land drove with this other with that other chap and. We were told that they'd radied through for an ambulance and and and and support meanwhile this group then set off because its starting to get dark and if you didn't get back back to camp there't any torches sort of so it became kind of 1 of these unmitigated planning disasters that was coming on I felt this so ands poor Junior officer trying to command us. And so we we sat this landro together going freezing cold because those landros are pretty exposed. There's no they weren't sealed just to look a canvasy tent over the top and suddenly this this ambulance arrives and apparently it's just the third ambulance that the first 2 us are in a ditch somewhere down the hill and so we get. I think we get rushed off to wreck some hospital and put on these beds and they've got his warm blankets over us and so on this gave us a good meal and that what 2 o'clock in the morning or what when 12 o'clock at night is really late in middle of night. This is right? You can go now I go now where are we? But so I think we.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
We But weve we got sort of phones through to the base or something and and I just said this brainwa said well look. Let's let's go to the local police station. We've got no money we' got no's go the police station say look This is our situation can you help us because I thought forces police They must be able to help us. They said Sure. Can keep in 1 of our interview rooms and we'll sort it out in the morning. So there we were kept in their interview room at a cup coffee and in the morning that they they sent the sergeant with a car to come and get us to take us back. But yeah I learned a bit by ingenuity of you if you turn at police stations say having to forces help. They'll put you up in computer.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Christmas.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Give me a chair sleep on. Ah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Um, that's hysterical. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
But yeah I think there's a few questions asked about how 2 young apprentices were kind of abandoned on the side of a mountain in the snow. Ah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Wow, you know it's probably probably ah trying to test your ingenuity. But I think you cheated there Joanne there's no with the word for it. But there's 1 thing that I'd love to do and I'm I'm making some inroads at the moment I would love to take people that are coming out of the forces. And help them to understand what their essence is because the whole point of doing this is to help people to be in alignment for them to gain fulfillment because what I've learned is that once you understand what your driving forces are as long as you are lying. That as long as you allow your bucket to be filled with with your core driving force on a regular basis you achieve fulfillment and if people that are coming out of the forces that there's this horrible. Um. Situation when you come out of the forces where you're trying to readjust to civvy street and trying to fit in and there's the horrendous period of feeling a lack of camaraderie that you so desperately want. You know and it very nearly got me to join the police actually because that's the only place where I could see the same kind of camaraderie and thank goodness I didn't because I wouldn't have done well in the police either. So I wanted to help people that have coming out the forces to understand what truly drives them. Without other people giving them the rules and regulations. What's what's what's there for you and let's help you to find something that fills that bucket up and gives you fulfillment and and helps you to fit you know I would love to be able to achieve that.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I so relate to that I mean as you as you know I I found myself about 5 years ago having not really realized what was going on in my head and I think it's so true. The number of people I've met since I gender transitioned who. Have said to me oh I'm brave or I admire the fact you did this or ah my the fact that you you had the courage to stop and start again. I get a feeling that when I speak to a lot of people. They've never truly sat down and realized who they are the essence as you say what? their drivers are what their passions are.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
They've kind of got on this conveyor belt at when they had to pick their exams at 14 years old or whatever it was or whatever their parents pushed them into and this conveyor about just keeps pushing through life and they don't push the stop button. They never get to that gap in the conveyor belt so you get a gatwick airport where you you have 1 walk way to the next walkway you never push the stop and take your luggage off. Go actually do I want to go to new yorker no I don't it I want to go here instead but people never have that life opportunity because they don't they don't really have that chance to pause and think who am I what do I really want. Until you get to a point in life. Maybe where a disaster occurs or in your late forty s early fifty s the the the kind of that midlife crisis or that that big thing explodes and go actually the kids are grown up I don't know I don't like my partner anymore we never anything common or my life isn't where I want it to be. Like so I think what you're saying here is about helping people find that that patch and that essence is so valuable because there's so many people in life who don't have that.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
absolutely you're absolutely right and I see essence as being a mirror I just you know people say to me you know? Thank you Michelle essence has given me permission to be myself. um um I think that's the most ridiculous thing to say all I've done is held up a mirror. And you're seeing you know you're seeing who you are and that's what essence does but I am so passionate about giving this tool to people as young as possible though. I'm currently talking with employability uk who has just won the queens award this is a charity that I work with and I've been a volunteer and ambassador for. Several years and we deal with children that are at school or young adults rather that are at school and they're just about to leave school and transition into the workplace and we're giving them tools and to be able to make that transition easier and I think it's absolutely essential. That you know not only do these people understand what really gives them fire in their bellly. What a head start that's going to give them Joe what a tremendous springboard that will give them considering you and I and other people took until they were in their forty s or their fifty s or their sixty s before they really understood who they were. What if we could give that to them earlier.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I Yeah I agree I think what I'd like to think is that younger people younger generation are kind of more in touch for their self but in some ways but more distance in other ways because there's so much pressure, Poor mental health now in the younger generation.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, so.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
May be more aware of their their sexuality or their identity their heritage their culture and more celebrative of each other's but there's still a lot of pressure to be young today and I think actually helping people find what their true drivers are is incredibly important and I think that's that's work that. I'd love to see that you yeah hear you exploring with me a certain terms of employability because how much time do we actually invest in our young people in their career development in their career planning I don't do next.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, and I'm I'm actually working with um I'm working with 2 very very dear friends of mine. So karen denster and justin robbins and we're working together on kaleidoscope which is actually a behavior. I call it a navigation tool. It's a navigation tool for children and we're starting off with 10 to 13 year olds and once we've proved that within education we're then looking at delivering that to people at an even earlier age. So I think my dream would be. To get people to get um children aged four plus used to understanding about other people's driving forces and their behavior how to navigate their relationships at a really early level. Because I think that will give them massive tools for the future. That's my ultimate dream.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah I always think that 1 of the underrate skills is is this emotional intelligence is really understanding your own sense of self how to be present in the moment for conversations present when you're around people and be able to pick up the nuances of of their needs as well.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
And.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And if you're both caring about each other's needs emotionally then there's conversations those relations. It's build strong and and I think we don't spend enough time helping children or younger people nurture that human connection. Also if you think about covid that has also created this huge distance between people where we're not. Truly understanding each other and but we're communicating on camera we know that the the emotional cues and signals the body language is different on the camera. We can't see what's going on people's hands their feet parts of their expression. What's going on behind them. So yeah I think I think thinking now where we are 2021 a new need to help people reconnect themselves and and themselves I guess if you've spent eighteen twenty months living fairly isolated working from home then you've got your own emotional needs.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Well I think you're absolutely right? Joanne but I think 1 of the key things is the fact that during lockdown people have had a chance to recalibrate and what I mean by recalibrate is they've been working from home and therefore their priorities have changed now. That people are suddenly say if you look at the at all the research it's saying that more than 80 percent of people in the uk do not want to go back to work in the way that it was before so there are people talking about 4 day weeks and. You know more opportunity to work from home. Why is that it's because we've been recalibrated. We suddenly realize that the things that are important to us. Are you know, maybe spending more time with our family maybe doing this maybe spending more time in nature. Um, ah maybe work is not this hamster wheel of be all and end all that we've let it become over the last few decades. So the most important thing for any leader in my opinion is to ensure that when their workers come back to work that they check what are you. Driving forces. What do you want in order to be fulfilled and let me as your employer ensure that you get that because what I'll get back if I give that to you when I'll get back will be tenfold now if we can do that and help people understand. What's truly driving them now. It can be completely different to what it was before lockdown if they don't do it. Joanne the truth is that what they're going to get is they're going to be part of this huge revolution which is the resignation revolution and I just wrote an article on that on linkedin we are. Having so many people resign because they've suddenly decided their job is not giving them what they need in order to be fulfilled so I ask every leader out there. Do you know what? your individual employees need from you because it's your responsibility as an employer. To make sure that they are fulfilled in their working role and that comes by the way sorry Joanna was just going to say that comes from the me who owned the youngest company in the country to ever gain investors in people.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And I atic. Yeah.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
So that's my authority for saying yes I do know a little bit about what people in an organization need.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And um, I yeah I'm ah unraw back to the things like the Thatzog's model of motivation when you think about the 2 the 2 stages we've got the hygiene level and then we've got the motivational effect. You can't motivate people. Who aren't getting the basic hygiene satisfaction. Theres things like um security psychological safety. Yeah feeling that they've have got a worth etc etc. We can't motivate people unless the basics are govern I think what people are realizing now is that all along their basic needs. To feed what they need their motivational factors weren't being met so employers spend all their time trying to use the motivational factors without understanding the underlying hygiene factors that are causing people to feel stress with their workplace and I think's that's what I'm not people saying I don't think if you want to questions.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
For.Yeah, you're up. you're absolutely right? um you're absolutely right richie sorry there's a slight delay I didn't mean to talk over you Joanne and I don't know if you know but you're telling me what your core driving forces are in everything that you say.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, so.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
You know and this is what I say I don't when I when you say what superpower have you got and I say well I can see people's potential I can see people's core driving forces and and the reason I say that is not because I'm psychic not because I'm a witch although I may have been burnt at the stake many many decades ago. Um, it's because I've created Essence. So I Know what I'm looking for and certain things you say Joann tell me what your core driving forces are and I think you'd be surprised because I think Aesthetic is 1 of your leading Corps driving forces and you've given you've given it away by saying. The fact that you need to be emotionally fulfilled the fact that you like to have this elbow room for Creativity. Do things a bit different you care about others. So Your social is up there as well. So you're caring about you know what your partner needs and all that kind of stuff even before yourself. So you're giving me all of these signs that go aruga aruga I know what your core driving forces are and you know I'd love to do this for you As soon as you finish speaking I'd love to do yours for you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And that sounds like a very yeah I'd love to as well I know I'm really curious. um' I've I've I've I've had dis profiles I've had myersb briggs I've had psychological profile in the past ah I'd love to see what this will come out with because yeah, I'm not not I'm not cynical but I'm not a an embracer of of psychological traits. So if you're really interesting to to find out how they resonate with me because you've you've got me curious now because I listen to what you've saying in your english.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, like I'd I love that I'd love that and of course we both know the wonderful Dr. Linda shaw. Um, you know I am a real fan of having 1 foot in science and 1 foot in spirituality or openness to anything else. But I love the neuroscience behind this. So the behavior profile I've written clarity that actually embraces all the neuroscience and you know I've I've got on the wall behind me I have my neuroscience certification from Dr. linda shaw's course you know as as many of our friends do.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Button.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Ah, but I love to understand the neuroscience. So what I've done with my in-house neurobiologist is I've written the neuroscience into this. So I've said this is how we behave but this is how I've measured that this is how I found it and this is how I've measured it and this is what it means from a neuroscience point of view.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Now.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
I'm not saying that this is who you have to be what I'm showing you is the bus route that your bus in your brain is taking on a regular basis. You can change that bus route all you've got to do is change the stop where the bus stops to pick people up. Um, and so I know I'm using 1 of those childish analogies that I always do. But you know I do dumbmp things down that's the way I do things and it is so easy to see how the neuroscience makes our behavior and how we can change that as well. Um I think it's been more difficult to understand how neuroscience has got anything to do with our core driving forces. So the question often has been where do our cord drivings come from I think the answer to that Joanne is I know you didn't ask me but I'm kind of preempting the question I'm doing my own interview here if you were to ask me where do our cor driving forcess come from I would have to say i.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Where did they come from.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, thank you for that. Um I think that they come from our external input in our fundamental years so it does rely on the culture that we're brought up in the religion if there is 1 um, the you know the cultural background the people that nurture us and look after us and the people that influence us and and their views. So. It's very very um, externally validated to a certain extent but what what we're taught in those fundamental years in terms of what's right? What's wrong. What's important. Those stay with us. They're right at those fundamental years and they stay with us for most of our life and it's really difficult to change them once they're embedded. So if we understand that someone has different core driving forces. You can say well in that case. They must have had a different cultural environment a different emotional environment, a different financial environment a different religious environment in order for those to happen so it doesn't matter why those core values are different. Um, it just matters that we understand that they're different. And we learned to work with them.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I completely agree I can trace a lot of my limiting beliefs and my need for validation and to be and to please somebody back to my father. Yeah he I was always never good enough. I was always the 1 that. Um, was told that I I should I I should read do something again again and again whether that was my father's 22 years in the Navy or whether he when he became a teacher I don't know but I often felt like his pupil failing the test. So yeah I wholeheartedily agree that a lot of my insecurities.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Four.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And need to please come from the way I was brought up in that way and I still find myself fighting that programming I was given knowing full. Well that that's where it's come from Well, that's that's why I believe those insecurities are arisen from and even though you know you still can't.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
When.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Switch off the critic. You can't still can't switch off that little nag in your head or touch. Yeah I completely agree that a lot of these things are very foundational.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
And I think what you've just triggered there for me. Joanne is really important because I look at what I do and some people will say well why don't you use myers briggs. Why don't you use this motivation tool. Why don't you use this that and the other why if you had to create your own. And I look back and think why and it's again, this is all about the why do I do what I do why am I the way I am and I remember the 6 or 7 year old me queuing to wait to have their go to climb the oak tree and when I got to the front of the queue. The older boys had knocked nails into the trunk of that oak tree. To make it easier for the smaller children to be able to climb um up the trunk of the tree and into the branches and when it was my turn I'd say no thank you and I'd go to the other side of the oak tree and make my own way up without the nails in why did I do that. You know what Joe I have no idea but I'll tell you 1 thing when I did it myself the view from the top was twice as good and for me when I look at something and think well. Why should I use somebody else's tool. Why should I create mine. Mine is better mine actually captures everything I want it to capture and I therefore think it is better I think the view is sweeter when I've created it myself and it's up to other people which 1 they use I can't help that individualistic streak. doesn't mean that I'm unsociable it doesn't mean that I'm unkind it just means that I have this drive to create things myself I can't help it so what do I do I embrace it.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And I completely completely agree I'm I'm very similar I don't like quoting other people I don't like using other people's and materials I want to have original thought I want people to interact with me for me, not not my ability to repeat others. So yeah I completely agree with.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yes.Um, funding.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That concept of originating and being 1 ne's own kind of author if you like yeah and I leave us about that.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Yeah, so I thought you know people look at my my clarity analysis which is it's based on the theory of disk but people say why have you created a disk analysis. It's the same as everyone else's I'll tell you what if flipping isn't It is so much more in depth than most other profiles that I've come across. It's got the neuroscience built into it. It's using and I've written every single word myself I've written every single question myself the algorithms how the answers are reproduced all of that. I've done it all myself. So although I've used the theory of disk. It's nothing more than that open source information from William waltemaster back in the Nineteen twenty s it's just the theory every single bit has been written by me in terms of essence I've used the theory from edward spranger from his book. Types of men and all that is is 60 foot Umbrellas and what I've done is I've taken all my work in values and I've helped slot that in to the theory that edward spramer created because it makes it easier for us to measure ourselves against each other and in society in General. So I have borrowed from the theory and given lots of credit to the fact that I've borrowed from that theory but every single word every single meaning every single question has been designed by me and orchestrated by me and so of the results.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
What I can't believe we've been chatting away for an hour now. This is absolutely fantastic I'm sure the listeners who are listening in would love to find out more about your clarity your Kaleidoscope and your essence programs where could people get hold of you.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
The easiest way to get hold of me Joanne is on linkedin. Um, and if you don't use linkedin then use Facebook use social Media. There's only 1 michelle mills porter Mills port has hyphenated I'm the only 1 on the planet which really fits my need for individualistic cord driving for so there's only 1 me if you look at Michelle millsporter I will come up if you reach out to me, please tell me that you've reached out to me because you heard the podcast. And I will accept you straight away and be thrilled to start a conversation and if it's on Facebook or you know through the website anywhere you want to get hold of me just let me know that it's because you've seen me on the podcast and that way I'll know how to filter you out. From the myriad of people that want to tell me that I'm the most beautiful woman they've ever seen and I'm really sexy and would I be their friend.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Well that goes without saying obviously.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Um, well you know the type Joanne you get them on Facebook I've only have I've had 2 this morning. They're usually from you know and people in the forces in America or stuff like this and they're obviously fake profiles but they always tell you how beautiful you are.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Five star generals five fivear generals they were in Afghanistan in the day but now they're not. But yeah I I need the saw. Yeah so you work with organize you work with organizations and also individuals is that right.
Michelle Mills-Porterguest
Like basketball.I do I tend to work with organizations but to be honest with you I'm really good at helping leaders to understand their people to engage with them better and that's all about performance for the organization. But secretly. Where I'm getting my kick is all the individual people I'm working with are going. Oh my gosh. She's that mean oh wow and I'm empowering them so you know I'm actually even when I'm working for organizations. It's the work that I'm doing 1 to 1 with their people that really fires me up and gives me those little. Bursts of everything I need for my fulfillment. You know people saying wow I'm empowered I feel powerful I'm going to go out there and knock it out the park.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So fantastic. Well I'm looking forward to having conversation you with you about my clarity profile. Um soon. Um and I'm sure the list will get hold of you as you say google you Michelle mealshiphenporter you got a website m mp uk dot com. Can find it there as well. But linkedin is great place to start. So thank you Michelle for being here today and a huge thank you to you? the listeners for tuning in and listening and can getting this far and thank you so much. Please do subscribe if you're not a subscribe already.To keep updates on future episodes of the inclusion bites podcast that's B I T E S tell your friends and colleagues and share the love I have a number of exciting guests lined up over the next few weeks and months so please please please stay in touch and stay subscribe. Of course if you'd like to be a guest, then please do drop me a line to Joe dot lockquid at sea changeap dot ek and also if you've got any ideas on how I can improve or other guests that may be suitable than please to let me know. So finally, my name is Joanne lockwood and it's been absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time.
Bye.
