Joanne Lockwoodhost
Hello everyone my name is Joanne Lockwood and I am your host for the Inclusion Bites podcast in this series I have interviewed a number of amazing people and simply had a conversation about the subject of inclusion belonging and generally making the world a better place for everyone to thrive but join me in the future. And please do drop me aligned Jo Dot Lockwood has t change happen dot code at uk that's tably change happen dot code at uk can catch up with all of the previous shows on Itunes Spotify and the usual places so plug any headphones grab a caf and let's get going. Today is episode 68 with the title life is just a game and I have the absolute honor and privilege to welcome Lynn erasmus Lynne describes herself as an internal optimist who believes that life is just a game. We may not always win but we have to play. Winning is better when I asked Lynne to describe a superpower. She said that she is an ideas generator who is able to spot an opportunity when others see a challenge hello lynne welcome to the show.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Hi to and that sounds fascinating. Thank you for the introduction.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, we met the other week and I've been looking forward to catching off again. So absolutely fantastic. So Lynne life is just a game. Why why is it just a game.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Ah, it was so much fun.Um, where do I begin I find um we take laugh way too seriously. So for me I think from a young age I've learned that um the more the more you see life as just a game. It's just. An opportunity for you to play a different board game if you if you get bored with monopoly you can choose Dominos and if you're bored with dominoes. You can choose chess and we're all good with different games. So a poker player might not be good at dots etc. So we all got our specialities in life that we enjoy doing and if we don't if we don't take it so very very seriously we tend to have more fun and when we have fun our ideas just keep on coming so you can't. Afford not to see life as just a game and of course we all want to win I don't think I've ever met anyone who says? yeah let's go play some games and then thinking I want to lose today. No, it's the same as life. We want to win. Ah. Just not by cheating please. But.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I Think that's great I mean I there are games that I love to play there are games that I play and games that I kind of will play but I really don't want to so my attitude and my enthusiasm and my it's not even that to stand a capability. It just.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes.Convict.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Whether I'm engaged in it or not depends on how I will put it in so I'm just thinking about I often play um pool billiards no pool ah in in pubs and bars and things and I don't mind it I don't mind plotting a few balls I don't mind doing it. But. To to play against someone who's really deadly serious about the whole game. It's I I Really don't want to take it that seriously I want to just hit the ball around a bit have a chat have the social side and I can I can part a ball but I get bit bored with it after about 1 of the 15 minutes I just gotta.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Was I.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
So I know what you mean, but it's other games that I will I will play intently and some some computer games and some ah some physical games I do want to play to win on. Yeah, that's really interesting What he said there? yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Exactly. Ah and I've got this metaphor that I use that say we set around a table and there's 6 of us and we all handed a game but you have to pass your game. To the person on the left and that person is going to play your game for you. So whether you win or lose it's up to the person on the left. You've got nothing to do with it. It's it's not you can't influence. It. For me that was the biggest. That's what we do daily on a daily basis. We hand our game to the person next door and they run our lives. we've we've got no say over it. We don't we don't interfere. We don't take our board game back and say no no no no I want to win so I'm going to play my game. Give it ah away we give our power away to other people and they play our game for us for me. It's just why why are you doing that. It's your game. You need to play your game. You need to participate you need to have your say as to whether it's right or wrong or are you going to go to the left. Are you going to go to the right. Because no one else has got your best interests at heart as much as you do I mean they're go to if if there's a £1000000 ah ah, prize on the line and ah the person on the left is going to play your game. How nervous are you going to be and how well are you going to play the other person's game. You're not going to care too much. You know.Ah, play to win because you're not going to win the money they're going to win the money So you're probably going to play really poorly. Ah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, it isn't isn't a danger that if we we're all playing in this game of life but we all have different rules or different motivations that we as individuals we wouldn't that generate conflict or.Um, confusion. How do we reconcile that.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Oh Brilliant now see That's the other part about playing games. Every game has got a rule book so you need to know the rules to break the rules because you have to break the rules to win. And peace before anyone says learn, you're not allowed to break the laws.. It's not breaking Laws. There's obviously a difference between as a rule and I I call the rule the one that you create it. It's your own mindset. It's your belief. It's your faith. It's your. Ah, Behavior. It's a thought and it starts with a thought something that happens and it becomes a story and that story becomes a rule that you live by and it's up to you to decide whether that's true or false and obviously society will put it upon you and say. This is the rules that you need to play By. This is how you need to behave in in in Public. This is how you need to ah go about in your career. This is how you need to play the game and yes, sometimes it is true but often it's not the way you. As an individual need to play that game. Your style is different to what they expect you to do and we can't all be the same. We're not all the same. We are all individual with our own tastes and beliefs and ah our backgrounds you know where we come from and our.Desires where we want to be and what we believe is ours and what we believe is not so you need to be brave enough to break those rules to break all those self-limiting beliefs about who you are what you're meant to do and how you're going to get there create your own path. Become a trailblazer you know that's if you want to win if you don't want to win it fine stick with the rules.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Do you think? do you think people are scared to be an outlier because you know we we've we've we've created these rules about what professional looks like what professional sounds like so forget the the compliance in our day-to-day job role.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, of course.Um, me.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Just how we're supposed to show up how we're supposed to speak so we often see people who maybe I grew up in the 70 s sixty s and seventy s so I was ah there was punk. There's mods. There's rockers at newromantics came along all these different sort of youth cultures and styles and.
Lynn Erasmusguest
The.Um, and.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Anyone who was adopting that sort cultural style was kind of the outlier. Yeah, the the plain Jane was kind of ah not out, not not overly extrovert dress or or shoes or hair. It was kind of just mummy dressed them in the morning sort of thing.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, his.Um, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, whereas you could tell some were kind of like living on the edge for how do how do we get permission to do that.
Lynn Erasmusguest
It's you it's you you need to give yourself permission and I think that's the hardest thing of all I mean I've been playing by the rule books most of my life until one day when I decided that that doesn't suit me. I can't ah can't play other people's games just because um I'm too scared to enjoy my own game because my own way of doing things is perhaps not as socially acceptable and that can be in the way that I speak. Can be in the way that I laugh at things. Um people think that if you are happy that you don't take life. Seriously, it's the complete opposite I take life very seriously because it's a game and I want to win. So this is this is life or death for me every day is laugh or death and I choose life I choose to to play it my way because that's I don't know you know when I was 5 I was five years old when my mom committed suicide. So obviously you know. Did a lot of things for me as a little girl growing up but it was there. It was through that process that I needed to break the rules because I created a little story in my mind that I wasn't enough I believed that I wasn't good enough that she wouldn't stay for me and fight for me.So Then there must be something wrong with me and that made me quite a rebel that made me outspoken and and and lashing out at at life because there was a lie that I created to protect myself. This was a story that I created and I needed to break that I needed to say but you're not. Unworthy, You're not Stupid. You're not ugly. You're not useless you are worth fighting for just because she chose not to fight for you doesn't mean that you're not worthy of it and I needed to be that person to fight for myself.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Are.
Lynn Erasmusguest
But I had to go through a lot of Downs. You know a lot of challenges in life and it was you know always believe there's there's a lesson to be learned in every single situation that that um life gives you But what do you make with it. You know what do you make with that story. What do you make with that challenge. Turn it into an opportunity so that for me was I needed to see life as fun I needed to see the light in every single day So every day when I wake up I needed to choose life I couldn't afford to be like her and choose death. Ah, can't beat that person So I have to force myself day out of my comfort zone to be the light to be life to be a winner because the up the opposite is just too much to be but it takes you obviously a while to get there. Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yes.
Lynn Erasmusguest
So yeah I do take Lavia very seriously. But I do have fun and I do see the positive in every single thing.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
See you mentioned there about comfort zone. Um, a lot of us do hang out in our comfort zone because if you're safe. We know what's expected of us people around us become predictable if you're predictable.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, and then.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
People kind of familiar with us. We don't have to think too hard about what we're going to wear tomorrow What we're going to do tomorrow because our comfort zone predetermines What we're doing doesn't it and and people worried about getting into what you know jumping over their stretch into their panic zone and finding themselves out of their depth anxiety rises. Um.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, os.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That feeling of imposter syndrome. You mentioned earlier the the incompetency in your head showss up or or suddenly you haven't got a rule what what am I supposed to do today. But if I haven't got any rules. What do I do I need someone to tell me what to do or something. So so how how do people move it without without bursting out in a.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yeah, yeah, yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, yeah into into outer space. How do they get into their stretch zone in a safe way without without.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, it's you you know about the um, a great rule I love this rule. You need to challenge yourself daily but you must always have a safety net so as long as you challenge yourself in a supportive manner. And that means surrounding yourself are people that are there to to catch you when you fall because you will fall quite a few times so you've got to have someone to have your back but preferably number one first choice is that you have got your own back and that takes confidence that takes. Daily practice every day putting yourself out there failing and try again failing and try again the more you do it. It will become autopilot and it's not so scary because honestly the worst thing that can happen when you when you fail is. Someone said oh my god that was ridiculous. Can't believe that she just did that. So what? who's that person a person's not going to make or break your career or your laugh It's not the end of the world when you look stupid, you look stupid only if you allow them to think that you look stupid. If you fail and you wear it with pride and say that's my failure I did that. Ah, you don't know how much failure I took to get to that point you know where where your worst. Um, you know people the things that people can make fun of you own its own. Its.If you don't make a big deal about your failure or challenges or things that you find embarrassed embarrassing about you then others people can't make fun of you. They can't poke poke at you and obviously the worst thing that can happen. Is you die. But. If you ditch your assumptions and actually do your research. You'll find out that the chances of you dying when you do that is 99% incorrect. So it's 1 % chance that you might die by some obscene fluke of misfortune. So really the worst that can happen. Is you failed. That's it simple as that. Um, and I think that for me was a big thing that I had to keep on telling myself that I only I'll only look stupid if I allow it if I don't allow them to make me feel stupid about my choice. Then they can make me feel stupid. It's my choice. So I tell them I don't feel stupid I'm actually quite proud of my failure and then people laugh and carry on they move on.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, any.That's very powerful what you're saying there. It's we have the choice of how we feel when someone interacts with someone's test so into us. Um, it's not always easy as it. Yeah, we know how we we know we can react positive We we can now react negatively.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Then.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
But many people are so used to feeling negative about something that that sometimes that's there people pushing their buttons sometimes and it's no matter how how tough and how we want to say you don't have any power over me sometimes people find that crack in your armor and and and push it Anyway, don't they um.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Man.Um, there.Um, yes, of course they do. Of course they do and and and we always laugh about it because it's my it's my weakness. You know we've all got our weaknesses.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I'm sure you have your moments. You must have your moments as well.
Lynn Erasmusguest
But again that comes with the I call ditching your assumptions is is what other people perceive you to be. You need to know your own strength and your weaknesses and if you can make fun of your own weaknesses then no one else can and but yes, you normally. That 1 or 2 people that know you very very well and they know that you hate that 1 thing and they'll keep on doing that 1 thing you know what loft is the best medicine I know it's it's really really hard for us to just law for ourselves and even law for the person and yes you know what? sometimes you can just. Flip them the bird and walk away and tomorrow you can like get them back and give them a little quirb or whatever but the best medicine is just don't let it don't let them see that it affects you because if you immune to their jibes then they then you're not fun anymore for them because they just want to get a little bit of a.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, no.
Lynn Erasmusguest
And little laughft out of you know, saying that 1 thing they know is going to irritate you you and and get will fly off the handle and I've got unfortunately one of those little tempers on me so I have to always check myself. Ah that I don't retaliate ah and just and just pretend that it doesn't matter or.You know what walk away we can't control other people who who's got nothing better to do in their lives than try and make you feel bad about yourself. That's that's their that's their war. They are fighting with themselves.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um.Yeah I think I think that's what you just said then yeah, that's the war people fight with themselves. It comes down to your own imposster syndromeie limiting beliefs your own self-worth own self-belief. Um I've been through phases of my life where.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Never.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I had to rebuild my self-worth my self-belief and I really had to focus on liking myself first believing in myself. Ah and being a person that other people would like.
Lynn Erasmusguest
This.Um, yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It's because if you're a person that other people don't like they're not going to like you so you have to start focusing on your own self-awareness of who you are and how you come across and if you no matter who you are if you're a dick you're a dick you if you if you don't want to become across as a dick then you got to you got to focus on that. Um, and maybe ask people.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I Mean actually have some selfreness. How do I come across Am I A nice person figure. Well you're kind of okay, but really yeah, when you're self aware of of who you are and how you come across then you could do something about it and you have the choice then to be be the person you want to be.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um.Are and.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And you also have the choice for how you wish other people to perceive you and it's people who are free spirits who are really fantastic people to be around and people are free spirits that are really hard work to be around and if you're looking for to be great, fun to be around then you have to be aware what that means and how you have to adapt. So. Yeah, and I went through a phase of my life where I I changed too much 1 in 1 go but five or six years ago and what I found was I didn't have anything to hang on to it was ah I was described it as being being one of those gimbals where you got it just rotates in all different planes.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, the correct.Um, yes, yes, yes.Um, then.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
To know what's up what's down what you're moving which direction you're travelling and sometimes you seem to be able to hang on to something whether that's a stable job. Stable family relationship, Stable, friendship relationship even just having a home and stable income sometimes to hang on to but when everything's rotate you know, lost in space. It is hard to find that Horizon again isn't it.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, wo yes you oh my goodness you you touching on exactly the thing that I've just been going through this. this past two years trying well to almost three years now um new country new environment, new everything where you you you leave behind everything that you know and everybody that knows you, it's your comfort zone. It's your safety net and also this whole thing about the personality.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, and.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Became quite evident for me I was a nice person and everybody loved me and I had so many friends and so many contacts and network whatever was I was loved and here I come to a new country where I'm quite loud. And I'm quite outspoken and ah you know the British ah Market is quite demure. Not demure. It's just um I think more reserved Yes, more reserved So I was I was quite a shock for a lot of people and I was a lot to handle and I needed to.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
They been reserved bit reserved. Yeah yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Tone down a lot a lot but in the process as I'm because um, you know I'm ah I'm a people pleaser I Want to be liked as much as I pretend to be a Rebel I Still want to belong I Want to belong I Want to fit in I Want to find my tribe and I've changed so much about me who I am. But eventually like you say about this spinning in space I was spinning in space and I realized that I'm actually a horrible person. Oh My God I've just ground that person that it I always tell don't become that person I've just become that person now become better resentful.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
See.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Like how can they get on and I'm not and it was just I had to just let go let go of all those limiting beliefs. You know I had to break the rules again and and to decide for myself. What is acceptable and yes and be okay with not being liked in every single circle that I go. But that's fine because I'm not here to be liked I'm here to be to enjoy life and yes I want to have people that ah love spending time with me and I think that's that's what got me because you know in South Africa I had I had 30 whatever 38 years of my life. To build a network around me where I had the opportunity to prove myself to people and they got time to know me I gave and I received I gave and I received people knew me so when I was a shitty person. It was okay. Because they forgave me because they remembered all the tons of good that I've done where yeah I don't have that I don't have that years and years of of backup kindness to tap into I don't have that. Okay, she's been ah, she's been a really horrible person this time around but I remember. Ah, you know back then she actually did a really good thing I don't have the reserves and I needed to remind myself of that. That's not default. It's not my fault either. But it's not their fault. They're not trying to be mean or trying to you know, make me feel unwelcome. It's just my reserves is empty I need to.Full that cup I need to fall that that building that relationship you know, creating that needs of belonging.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um.Yeah I I I do a lot of self-reflection and I I gave up drinking was I stopped stopped drinking at the beginning of the year so I think I'm about nearly three hundred days two hundred days almost without without without drink and.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, okay oh well done Well done.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I Realized that I was living sometimes to drink um too much of my social but being was kind of involved alcohol. My wife and I would go out.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
The pub we go to this. We go to that and we'd always end up having a drink we come home on a Friday we' never with ever glass of wine or a bottle or 2 I'd wake up a Saturday morning thinking? Oh my oh good and I certainly realized that also I didn't like the person I was.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
As much as I like when after a drink then I liked the person when I hadn't had a drink and I realized that the person I was I was becoming a person I didn't want to be when it was drinking and it wasn't a problem I wasn't a horrible or a nastier thing I just.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, one day and.Um, passionate.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Realized I was doing things where the alcohol was kind of like the the catalyst and and now I have not had a drink for three hundred days is events I go to now that I say actually it's half ten' I've had enough now I'm going to go to bed or I'm going to stop I'm going to do something different.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
In the past I would have been there at three four o'clock in the morning till the bar shut I got kicked out woke up the next morning feeling really too tired feeling. Yes I'd had a good night but I was going to have a bad day. So now I'm I've spott my good nights for good days and actually not feeling any guilt.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, get through.Hip b.Um, yeah, more know. Yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Not feeling any any judgment is because oh you don't drink I said no I'm not having a drink today but you che it up forever. No no, just today I'm but three hundred days now one day at time and when you get to that point you think actually if I ever drink now I have to reset that clock. Oh yeah, I've got more investment in the three hundred days
Lynn Erasmusguest
Sure.Um, and um, oh yes I Yes, Okay, okay.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
That I have in wanting a drink and my goal with beginning you to become fitter is yeah I'm fifty seven years old I want to make it to 75 it actively make it to 75 nice nice to do actively to 80 as well. But I thought if I wait till I'm 70 that's too late I've got to do it before I'm sixty so that was kind of my attitude that I take command of my life. A to be the person I want to be to do things I want to do not because I feel like I have to because of alcohol and also ah be healthy and fitter and so I took I took that positive step the beginning of the year
Lynn Erasmusguest
Are is are um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And I'm quite pleased with myself I've yeah so and I'm happy with myself. Yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
I love it hold done congratulations. It's it's very hard I think it's um, ah, it's been five years now we've we've stopped drinking and smoking five years ago and it's been quite the journey. Um. For me, it was time and I wanted my time back because I just spend so much time just drinking and you know then there's the after effects of recovery and I was not a nice person when I was drinking so that was my my. My personal reason was just to get my time back and oh my goodness.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, ah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
I've just one so much more I've got so much time and creativity and energy. It's just I I would never ever go back ever. Never not worth it. Yes.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yeah.And nothing when you start thinking about eating healthier as well and having less takeouts or less eatouts you then realize that most of your life is revolving around eating something or drinking something because what we're going to do today.
Lynn Erasmusguest
To.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Oh normally was there. Let's go to the pub for lunch or let go here. We'll stop off there on the way and have time to eat you think? Well, why is everything revolving around food or drinking alcohol in some respect. So yeah, really, it really takes a a real reengineering of your whole life but you making these.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes.Um, when.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Different choices about what you want to do and then you try you, You have to really break through that find new activity.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yeah I find it's deflecting for me. It was deflecting from from real from from life from living every single day. Um, it was an escape because you know alcohol covers a lot of a lot of sins and a lot of emotions. Ah, but it doesn't actually it just highlights it even more but we've been trained that. That's what it does you know having a cigarette or having a glass of wine will actually make you relaxed. It's not true. Ah, it's the opposite Hypes you up. But yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah I gave up smoking about Twenty Twenty years years ago it was the eve of my thirty ninth birthday birthday. It was I like you do you you out you out look drinking all night and you run out cigarettes at three o'clock in the morning or something and there's nowheres open. You can't buy anymore.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, both are yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And I remember wake up the next morning while probably it's probably the next afternoon. It was such a good night out and I felt really really rough I I probably smoked sixty cigarettes the night before my lungs my whole I just felt yeah you know you feel that yuck don't need to fit. Ah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yeah.Um, ah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, but the time this hangover and smoking hangover had disipate dissabated probably 2 or 3 days later I had that cigarette for flight three days and I thought and I didn't have and I didn't have any either in the house and it's kind of like okay i' done three days let's just keep going and and I did I just I just able to remember.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, Wow. Wow.Um, Wow. So.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Just remembered how bad I felt yesterday and the day before and it made me go god do I really want to feel like that ever again in my life. No I don't and I just from that point forward. It was a positive mindset that I just didn't want smoking and I changed my relationship with how I saw the cigarette I saw it something that made me feel made me feel terrible.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, Wow I Love Yes, yes yes, and it's so important and that.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Not made me feel good.
Lynn Erasmusguest
You know I often when I coach people there's like I need I need that person to change I need them to change and I'm like can you remember the last time you've changed can you remember the last time you broke a habit you did you gave up drinking or smoking or going out at night or whatever. It's hard. It's hard to Change. It's hard to break habits. But everybody else must change. But it's so funny.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It is yeah and but I think we get we get stuck with that I call it this convey about life. You kind of get on it at an early age and you pick up all these bags and baggage and all this collection of responsibilities and society wants to do this I've now got married.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, the expand.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Children I've bought more house got mortgage I've got dependents I've got responsibilities at work all this stuff with this baggage. You pick it up and I suddenly realized that if you' ever flown from gatwi airport. But when you get off the taxi trucks outside. They've got these long travelators I Remember you got these travel agents. You've got your bags on it.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yeah.Ah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
And you going you going. You're going to Spain on holiday. you' just going and you get all on neighbor your bags with then you get little gap and then you go get on the next one and you go into Spain on holiday and you keep going and then you get through passport control and you go into Spain on holiday you find another traveler you get on it before you know you go you go to Spain a holiday and and at one point I just went. Whack I hit that stop button and went I don't want to go Spain on I don't want to I just I just want to part my butt here for a minute and take stock away I'm going because all I've been told in my head that I have to go to departures I have to go on this plane because that's why I've decided and. It was yeah the me metaphorical decision was to hit that stop button then say let me let me just park myself here and go where have I come from where I want to go and make that decision and not necessarily follow what everyone's expectations were it was a a real tricky time because that's when the gimbal when float around the space coverver because you you change too much.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um. Um, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Ah, if you're not careful. You you get into your 40 s and you just drift into your fifty s and into 50 s you drift into sixty s because that momentum you had in your teens and 20 s and 30 s you just carry that momentmentum model. It's it's quite a brave decision to hit that stop button sometimes and then people look at you like you're crazy.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, a and ah yeah. Um, yeah, and it is yeah it's It's also the energy of find your end was um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Where's this person come from who are you.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Something I had to to tell myself admit to myself because I'm I'm thinking that I'm still super human I can do anything I can work twelve fourteen hours a day seven days a week I don't need rest and then you have your your moments of you just. Complete burnout and you're like this this shouldn't be happening I've been through that I can't go through it again. That's just stupid. You know be be. You know, go through your experiences once learn from it and move on. But if it keeps on happening seriously then.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, me.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Surely, you must be the problem and it's it's about that exact same thing. It's being brave enough to rest I always thought in our family. It's it's a big um like a thing in the erasmus family you work work work work from the moment you get up till evening must work work work. You must prove yourself. There's no time for lying around. There's no time for idleness you prove your worth and how hard you work and if you don't work hard then you're not worthy of anything and you dare not complain about anything because you don't work hard enough if anything is going wrong in your laugh. It's because you don't work hard enough. So it's been like you know years of Indoctrin that of this is how life you think this is how it should be and like I dare not rest. Rest is for lazy people and I'm not a lazy person. It's like a sway word until I burn out and a five years later I burn out again and then I was but I need to just rest.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Rest is not weakness because it's in the resting period where all this thoughts come to you all these ideas come to you and you realize like you said you realize what you do want and you realize what you don't want and then you go after what you do want and. Way All those unnecessary things that you pile on because you're too afraid to miss out in something important so you just say yes you just accept everything you just want to be busy so you don't have time to think about life and where you want to be so yeah, resting is something I'm still backing with it I'm not gonna lie.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Ah, really really paddle with with resting but I'm getting better I'm getting better.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yeah I I spent my it t career living on adrenaline stress and and pressure and yeah working all hours. Yeah I would always have this I could I could pull an all nighter. It wasn't just an all nighter because it started. It's an all daya. Then an all nighter and then you finish at lunch. So the next day so you've almost done those 36 hours and you just live on it and he's thrive on you think I'm the hero because I've done this I've delivered that and now four o'clock in the afternoon five o'clock in the afternoon. My brain says.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um.Um, know you and.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Time to think time to sit back time to die to id 8 time to relax I don't rush I don't rush out of bed I I think I need my first two hours of the morning to to forget my mind clear thing about what I'm doing today as you say you need that you need that brain space to ideate to think and I I heard it recently someone said if you want.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, um, ah loud.Um, wow you.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Something done efficiently. Give it to a lazy person because lazy people aren't lazy. They just look for very optimal ways of delivering things whereas if you give it to someone who is an intensely multitask or I can cope with everything I do everything at once then eventually what you end up doing is having a very complex process.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yes.Um, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Whereas I I I heard that thought I'm quite happy to be lazy. But I'm not lazy I Just think about things in a lot of detail and then go right? That's how we're going to do it and I've kind of shrunk it all down into simple steps.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, a.Um, and please.Yes, you actually smart because you just use the the the path of least resistance so you take the smartest quickest route to get there. But you only get there because you took the time to think through where. Praise to people like me just rush hit On. Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah I mean it does mean I procrassating I do end up procrastinating though I do end up thinking about things for a long time but when when I when I when I get my pen on paper I can knock out 2000 words in half an hour to an hour and it's it's kind of my brain's already.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes. Um, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I've written everything in my head and it just comes straight out of the paper. It's but I say about speaking I I have it all in my head I've got all these little all these paragraphs and boxes in my head and I just trust my brain to deliver it because I've put so much thought into it. It may not look like I'm doing a thing but it really my my my subconscious and my conscious brains are.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yet.Um, Wow Wow I Love it I Love it So inspirational.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Is working on this stuff in the background so you work with leaders is that is that That's ah one of your um core areas of expertise you work with leaders.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Yes I help ah help ceos to create a winning culture. So It's if organizations or management are struggling to connect with their teams if they feel a bit disjointed disconnected and they don't know that. Messages are not being relayed. There's no um, belonging.. There's no inclusion. There's a lot of people leaving. Um,, there's obviously a big disconnect that's happening So That's my area of Expertise where I'll come in and find that little knots. There's quite a few knots.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, and.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Within the organization and I'm not at for for them and bring the team alongside so I don't ah believe in just finding the solution and then handing it over to the team and say here we go. This is the way we're going to go forward from now On. This is how we're running the kind of country at the um the the company and. This is your role in responsibility slip of the tongue which was very obvious there. Ah, it's a power to get all truth.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yes, yes, um, but someone listen to this podcast in the future. Um, we're at the end of October Twenty Twenty two and the ah the political state of of the Uk is kind of. Um, we've gone from was it four chancellors in in four months three prime ministers and we're we're waiting to find out what happened or we got 2 through 2 monarchs as well in the last month or 2 so yeah, the the country the country in flux politically and spiritually so yeah, it's a.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, a.Make change. Um, yeah.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
It was a bit of foreignship. So What I mean this putting our our our political issues for aside for one second. Um, what are the biggest mistakes you you find that leaders make we? what's their challenge around because it's not the team often. It's the leaders. It has a chat and does it.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, it's the disconnect so they don't actually understand what the the teams are going through. They don't understand the task they don't understand the challenges and they don't see the opportunities. They don't listen. So a lot of leaders just um or and it's not always the leader's fault. It's just they're busy. They are so busy running the the show. They've got a big department or the entire company that they have to run they they they are overwhelmed. They don't have time to go and sit with each team and and say what is your problem. You know they don't have that that um time time is is not on their side. Ah you need to get that each each team member needs to be a Ceo so it's how to make each team member feel.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Can.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Like they are the most valuable member in this organization and without their input and their collaboration working together. The company can't go forward. So it's giving them the responsibility but also the freedom to do the right thing but that means that they've got proper training have They got the tools do they understand the vision and I think that's ah, a big problem that a lot of companies are going through is that the vision has changed so a lot of them have starteded this company like 5020 years or hundred years ago whatever it's it's well established organizations. The reason for their existence have theyre adapted. It's changed. It's no longer the same yet. They're still got the same policies and the same procedures and they've got the same roles as they did fifty years ago you can't you have to. Adapt you have to change with the with the change that is taking the recipressing the reset button and say stop. Let's just let's just relook at where our company is at so what? where are we going? Do we have the same vision for this organization. What is the outcomes and then how are we going to to take this forward and then you include the team and say how can we achieve our vision. It's not about handing the the the rules and the vision to the teams and say this is what you do you get them on board so they create.Their unique little role and they know that the outcomes are Xy and z because if they don't do what they need to do then the team members on the left and right can't do what they do the collaborative that each one have got a very important role to reach the end goal. It's it's about inclusion right? It's ah it's about giving them um the appreciation that then that they are valued and including them because I get so I get so annoyed when I when I see companies just got this bright employees working for them. And then they come and bring big big name consultants to come and tell them how to run their business but they blamegue those people those people that they employed have got the knowledge to tell them that and that paying them a salary every month but they don't tap into their resources that don't actually utilize their skills and they're not. I'm like I don't understand I don't understand why yeah that that sir yeah your team is your be this ambassador I'll leave you with that.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um.Um, if you did you? yeah did you part the problem is the part problem is that often leaders see their team leadership as being their second job. Yeah, their first job is their.Delivering of of some sort of product or task or project or something um or doing leader stuff. Maybe the senior technician or the senior processor. Ah because that's what of swifi You said you said that leaders don't have enough time to look after their teams. My view of leadership is the leadership should be there.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um.Um, me.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Primarily to focus on their teams and the stuff f do as well is the as well rather than the other way around and what we and is to do is create environment where leaders can succeed in their team leadership and if and the stuff comes second if if they've got time for the stuff.
Lynn Erasmusguest
This.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Then there's something wrong there. The leader needs to delegate the needs needs to have an environment their leader needs to look at their workload and how they work is it. That's the challenge.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, the Os post. You said it and you said it you said it? That's exactly how it's how it's meant to be but it it doesn't because you know I mean once once you're up there. It's just it's so busy. You don't have Time. You're Like. Rat Race but but you've got all these outcomes when you got to make profit and your stakeholders are looking for results. It's all results Driven. So I'm really happy I'm excited to see that the world is changing slightly towards the wellness economy you know towards not just ah productivity and profit. Outcome but also about the wellness of you know people, planet and profit included but it should be like a partnership between between all 3 because if you look after your people your your profit automatically will increase. It's It's automatic, but a lot of people don't see it. They see people as a cost. To the company. It's not a cost. It's a benefit. It's adding to your organization and if they don't add then you've employed the wrong person or maybe that role is no longer needed. You know it's ah the hiring process gonna but.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, people are yeah, people aren't overheads. Are they they're not overheads. They're contributing to the output or the productivity of a business that if they're not as you say why? Why aren't they contributing to the overall overall or or maybe it's some. It's a mindset shift.
Lynn Erasmusguest
It.S no.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Rather than seeing someone who is an administrator as being an over-head you look at can you deliver the product without this person. No in which case they're part of the product. They're part the part of the processing of that product and I think I spent 25 years running it companies and and what I found was because I was it technical myself.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, exactly.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I became the lead it person with a buck stop with me all the time. So it meant I was always either micromanaging people or I was always being the technical super lead and having to step in and help all the time. So it meant I was never there to sort of look up.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yes.Um, okay, and.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Relax smell the coffee and think strategically I was too busy at the coal face managing two inches away from the from the from the wall and now my business is yes I I did do most the delivery but the people I I have a team around me.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Ah.Woof.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
They do things that I don't do and I don't pretend to do graphic design social media I don't pretend to do business development I've got an opinion on the and the outcome I want more business I Want this image of my business. So I want I know what I want to see but I don't I don't want to be part of the doing.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yeah, shut. Yeah me.Yes.Sure you can inspire and because that's what leaders are meant to do. They're supposed to inspire the team to do their job Appropriately you know? and um, ah I teach a lot about entrepreneurship but it's.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Which means I can then nurture encourage and help people get to that point. Yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Ah, that's for for individuals but at the at the the organizational level. It's about creating an entrepreneurial mindset for each of those team members. Um, and I think that's where the magic lie is if you can give them the skill to make that role theirs.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, yeah.
Lynn Erasmusguest
So that they are the business owner magic happens.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Yeah, give the parameters delegate Authority create expectations manage by objectives I'm a great believer in in Rag Yeah Red Amber green.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Correct past him years.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
If everything's green fine if it starts going amber let's have a look at that if it's red. Let's look where the burning bridgees are let's look at what we need to solve now. But it's not pick a part green if it's good. It's good. It's fine. We can talk about the talk at the Amber and talk about the red stuff. So yeah I'm a great believer in that.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, yeah, yeah and I see the tech industry is doing that you know fell fast. So they're they're leaning more towards that that process. But Um. Think the human the human aspect and the communication ah structures might just need need a little bit more more work.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Um, well we've been yacking away here for forty five fifty minutess it's been fascinating to having a chat with you and we I know I know we could and when we spit half hour in the green room just getting to know each other beforehand which is that absolutely amazing. So um.
Lynn Erasmusguest
Um, we can do another hour. Um.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
I know you have more to move on to so Lynne tell us how people get hold of you. Um I believe you've got some stuff on the go that you want to talk to the audience about. So yeah, just ah, just say say how we get hold of you. What's the best way.
Lynn Erasmusguest
This is.Um, I think the the easiest way it's probably on Linkedin. Um, it's literally just Linkedin /linearerasmusly in in e r a s m u s um my website is the same linear erasmus dot com where I help you. A company to create a winning culture and I deliver that via keynotes or master classes or coaching depending on what you need for your organization. What level you are are at and how disconnected you are? Um, so yeah, that's my superpower and that's.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Are.
Lynn Erasmusguest
What I would love to help you and getting your team back on track and become unstoppable. But.
Joanne Lockwoodhost
Fantastic. Fantastic! So Absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much and also a huge thank you to you? the listeners for tuning in for getting to the end listening in all this way I do appreciate that. Ah, please do subscribe to keep updated with future episodes of the inclusion Byte Spot Car B I T Yes, tell your friends tell your colleagues please share the links please share the love I've got a number of other exciting guests I know no one could be as exciting as lynne.But I'm sure you'd be equally as inspired by them over the next few weeks and months and if you'd like to be a guest yourself if you have something to say around inclusion belonging helping people thrive creating a positive environment in the workplace or even in society then please do let me know of course I always welcome. Feedback and suggestions on how we can improve the show just drop me a line to Jo Dot Lockwood a sea change happen dot code ek. Finally my name is Joanne Lockwood and it's been an absolute pleasure to host this podcast for you today. Catch you next time. Bye.
